the two towers - seen it!!!

[samsolo]

well thank god those idiots didn't get the name changed!!!<P>anyway, it is awesome, the CGI gollum looks fantastic, but to be honest the way he looks is the least impressive aspect to him, it is the emotion they have managed to show in a CGI character that really blows you away, you really feel for him.<P>there are a few things some people won't like, they have tinkered with the plot more than they did in the fellowship (but it does work for a film, i suppose), and at times it jumps around between the different characters a bit too much, and you don't really get a feel for treebeards character, his humour from the book is lost somewhat. also it does suffer from being the middle film, a film with no beginning and no ending, but then again they would have to have completely change the plot to get round that, and that would have been a big mistake.<P>the battle at helms deep is fantastic, the wargs are amazing, gimli is a comic genius *cough* and rohan is realised brilliantly<P>go see it!!<P>(unless you didn't see the fellowship, it won't make sense)

[Rogue]

I agree. AWESOME MOVIE!<P>The only thing I didn't really like was the number of flashbacks and dream sequences. Other than that, it kicks ass.<P>Can't wait for the third.

[Hawk9X]

didnt like the talking...fighting was awsome. AND I GOT TO SEE THE PREVIEW FOR TERMINATOR 3

[Major Wes Janson]

i love the Ents' attack on Isengard. "The Ents are going to war" I love that sequence<P>[edit]oh and for anyone who complains about spoilers in this thread, <BR><A HREF="http://www.reallifecomics.com/d/20021218.html" TARGET=_blank>Look here</A><p>[ 19 December 2002: Message edited by: Major Wes Janson ]

[Gringlas]

Yeah a nice movie. It has been long ago, that I read the book, so I don't know exactly what they missed or changed.<BR>Will go out and watch it again tonight.<P>Termintaor 3? Can't wait for that one, but sadly it will arrive Germany in June! That's not fair!

[JC]

Awesome movie. Well worth jumping up and down in the cold for two hours and chugging gallons of Starbuck's coffee prior to getting in.

[Vince T]

*steps into a dark corner and grumbles, annoyed that he hasn't seen it yet*

[Rich C]

Just got back from seeing it, absolutely brilliant, loved every minute

[Draco429]

Ditto, except for the part at the end.<P>"Let's hear about Frodo! Yeah!"<BR>"Wait. You forgot about a chief character. Samwise *what's his name*?"<BR>"Frodo, I was being serious."<BR>"So was I."<P>CORNY!!!!

[Wedge327]

Wow. Thats all i have to say. Much more humorous, on Gimli's part, and the Ent who runs into the rushing water when he's on fire near the end. hehehe great scene.

[General Edor Crespin]

Yeah, I liked that scene too. And Gimli. <P>And is it just me, or does Arwen's light-blue dress she wears in Aragorn's dream look a bit like Padme's, the one she wears when talking to Anakin right after his dream on Naboo?<P>*smacks Rogue with a frying pan*

[Nute Type R]

I wish they'd gotten someone else to be Arwen. I can't stop thinking of bad Aerosmith themed jokes, such as when she tells Aragorn that he must follow this path or something and i immediately says to my friend "You must follow this path. Walk this way."

[Hawk9X]

"youll have to toss me...im to short to jump the distance...common! toss me!"

[The Saxman]

Draco you fool, that conversation is from the frelling <B>books</B> (although IIRC it was in Return of the King, not Two Towers)!<P>Anyway...<P>Hell YES. This was an incredible movie. It did depart more than FotR did (and, as I've heard it, RotK) but it's a lot more faithful to the novel than many adaptations nowadays *cough*The Musketeer*cough*.<P>My comments on the major changes (spoilers below):<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>Elves at Helm's Deep. I've heard quite a big of criticism of this one, namely to the tune of "But the Elves are leaving Middle-earth, they weren't involved in the War. This is only half-right. The Elves WERE leaving Middle-earth, but they didn't totally forsaken it yet (because many stayed for a good while into the Fourth Age before taking the ships to Valinor. Legolas didn't leave until after the death of Aragorn).<P>In fact, what people are forgetting, and what is stated in the BOOKS, was that the War of the Ring extended beyond Rohan and Gondor. It was one, total offensive THROUGHOUT the West, and there were SEVERAL battles in the north. There was a MASSIVE battle between Galadriel and the Elves of Lórien against Dol Goldur in Mirkwood. Erebor (The Lonely Mountain) and Dale were ensieged. Rivendell was ALSO attacked (although IIRC this one was a smaller skirmish). The Elves didn't just fight, but were quite HEAVILY involved protecting the North.<P>Now these events were only mentioned in passing in the story itself, and with somewhat greater detail in the Appendices to RotK, and are easily forgotten. However although significant events in the history of the Third Age, they play a very minor part in the story itself. Although I'm not sure, it's a possibility that Jackson decided to contract some of these events by having Haldir lead Elves of Lórien to the aid of Helm's Deep, rather than mentioning battles that are never shown that would likely confuse casual viewers, or take up screen time SHOWING these events that are less important to the major characters of the story.<P>The same is the situation with the Warg attack, which has also been a point of criticism. IIRC there is passing mention of Warg-riders raiding the people of Rohan, or cavalry skirmishes between the Rohirrim and Wargs that's not actually shown in the books. This may, once again, be another way to contract and simplify the deep world Tolkien crafted. Why just mention a skirmish against Warg-riders and confuse the casual movie-goers unfamiliar with Tolkien's work, when you can contract the events and actually show it instead? Movies are a visual media, and it's more effective to show than tell.<P>However, I do agree with the criticism of the change to Faramir's character, and bringing Osgiliath into the middle film. The city of Osgiliath does have a significant role in the War of the Ring, however it isn't until RETURN OF THE KING that the significance of Osgiliath, the point where Sauron's forces cross the Anduin to attack Minas Tirith, becomes apparent. There was NO NEED to show Osgiliath in this movie, that could have easily waited until Return of the King. Again, the visual medium. Faramir rides to Minas Tirith from the parts of the city still held by Gondor to warn his father (and Gandalf, who has arrived with Pippin) about the situation, and later there is a battle there as Sauron's armies cross the river and overwhelm Faramir's defenses, driving them back to Minas Tirith (during which Faramir is badly wounded). The audience didn't need Osgiliath set up in this movie. It was, as I see it, a change to the story without a viable reason as the presence of Elves at Helm's Deep and the Warg-rider attack had. Not only that, but Frodo's encounter with the Nazgûl there SERIOUSLY counters the fact that Sauron had lost track of where the Ring was! He never realized it was so close until Frodo tried to claim it at Mt. Doom!<P>The change to Faramir's character was also unnecessary, and directly linked to the unnecessary establishment of Osgiliath in this movie. Faramir was tempted by the Ring. EVERYONE who encountered it was. But the books served to show an IMPORTANT difference between Boromir and Faramir. Frodo remarks that although the two brothers VERY much alike, Faramir looked even more like ARAGORN. The book makes the point that the Numenórean blood ran almost pure in Faramir. And although tempted, Faramir NEVER let it pass beyond a temptation. He let it go.<P>In the end, yes, Faramir does still show his good character and lets Frodo go, but now he still tries to take the Ring at first which he NEVER did. "Not even if I saw it lying on the road." This is another change I just can't find any GOOD reasoning for.<p>[ 20 December 2002: Message edited by: The Saxman ]

[General Edor Crespin]

It was corny in the books too.

[samsolo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>didnt like the talking...fighting was awsome <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i see the sophisticates are in!

[Defiant]

Legolas my Eggolas.

[Nute Type R]

If I were exceedingly rich, I'd have bribed the right people so that in Return of the King, Sauron's eye can fire lasers and he cuts down Sam and Frodo and gets the ring back and grows to enormous size so that his body is to scale with his eye(!) and then he goes to Isengard and grabs the tower and uses it like a club as he rampages across Middle Earth for 3 hours. it would be the best movie ever.

[Draco429]

Three things, Sax.<P>First: I haven't read the books, although now I really, really want to.<P>Second: I didn't say it had to do anything with the books. I just said it was corny.<P>Third: Yes, I am a fool. And a spastic one at that. I'm a frickin' nut. Get used to it.

[General Taskeen]

The movie was wow, great, fantastic, etc. And not just the battles like most people enjoyed, EVERYTHING in this movie was great from Start to Finish.<P>Just the "little" things got to me, but didn't subtract from my opinion of the movie.<P>Firstly when the Haldir and his elf people came to help at Helm's Deep, that never happened. And just to make sure you people aren't confused, these elves did not come from Rivendell which you saw in LoTR and a little in Two Towers. They came from that one place of the Lady of The Wood or whatever. The other elves from Rivendell went on ships and left Middle Earth ---> hopefully you read the books, because they do return in the third installment.<P>Secondly, they should have shown a bit more with the Ents. Merry and Pippin didn't seem like they got to anything except take a little ride on Treebeard. In the book of Two Towers, they agreed to attack right away instead of being comical with deciding that Merry and Pippin were indeed Hobbits instead of Orcs. At some point they went near Isongard (sp) and acted as real trees before Sarumon's army left to fight at Helm's Deep. They went right past what looked like a "forest" real close to Sarumon's place and they obviously ignored it.<P>Thirdly, they should have shown Gollum leading Sam and Frodo to to "her" as he was speaking to himself. That scene/adventure of theirs is going to be in the third move though.<P>Lastly, after the Uruk-Hai retreated from Helm's Deep from the 6,000 or so Horsemen and Cavalry came to aid Helm's Deep they went into a forest that was not previously near Helm's Deep, it simply "appeared" there. The Uruk-Hai retreated into this forest and ran into Ents hearding other Ents who were "corrupted" and aggresive. They all died, and Gandalf said "Don't go into the forest." (the same kind of forest Merry and Pippin went into I believe)<P>Obviously they couldn't put any extra stuff like this into the movie or it would be well over the 2 hours and 59 minutes currently in Two Towers. I believe they can't have movies over 3 hours in a Theatre.<P>[ 21 December 2002: Message edited by: General Taskeen ]<p>[ 21 December 2002: Message edited by: General Taskeen ]

[Major Wes Janson]

Well, lets hope for a two Towers Special Extended Edition DVD

[The Saxman]

First: Haldir. I think I already covered the appearance of Elves at Helm's Deep being a story change in my post. Incidentally, none of Tolkien's writings ever reveals Haldir's fate. It's unknown if he sailed to Valinor or remained behind, or if he was slain during the battles in the north.<P>Second: The Ents. The problem here is that a lot of this, cinematically, wouldn't work. With a three-hour time limit and a LOT of major action scenes, the Ents are largely a lot of talking to begin with. IIRC I think part of the Entmoot DID involve a discussion of Merry and Pippin being or not being Orcs (can't remember exactly, however there WAS a discussion about them). It also still took some time for them to decide what exactly to do.<P>Third: I don't think the reinforcements Gandalf led numbered as high as six thousand. He largely gathered up the unaccounted for survivors of previous battles.<P>As for Saruman's army, they gave way because of Théoden's charge, and Gandalf's arrival also helped drive them back. However it was the Ents and Huorns (note that it's not actually ENTS that made up that forest. Huorns are both trees that have gone Entish, or Ents that have gone treeish, to paraphrase the novel) that terrified the Uruk-hai. The surprise of Théoden's sudden attack and Gandalf striking there flank only pushed them back.<P>And incidentally, Gettysburg was theatrically released and had a running time of FOUR hours.

[Major Wes Janson]

Ok, seen it twice now.

[General Edor Crespin]

I've said it before, I'll say it again- What the heck is the point of putting spoiler space above spoilers in a forum, but not below, especially if there's posts below the post that has spoilers. Sure, it works in an email, but in forums? <P>Note: This is just something that bugs me in general, not about these spoilers in particular.

[Major Wes Janson]

<h1>?</h1> could you repeat that?