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Mandal Motors (Hutt Fighters) mega-post

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Driftwood
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Post by Driftwood » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:22 pm

As there are several variants of these craft, and I'll have more to put out later, I'm going to consolidate them into a single post because multiple threads are going to be kind of a pain to curate when I update them going forward.

All ships have a cockpit, exterior, and flight group colors this time around.

Fun Fact: FG Gold utilizes the Naboo Starfighter / Security Gold/Chrome colors as these ships were lightly used by Naboo Royal Security Forces.

Please let me know of any issues and/or feedback regarding features. I am particularly curious about the engine glow effects on all the ships.

M-12 Kimogila (going to be the only variant)
Screenshot 2018-03-09 21.52.48.png
Download


G1-M4-C Dunelizard (style 1)
Screenshot 2018-03-09 21.53.32.png
Download


M3-A Scyk (style 1)
Screenshot 2018-03-09 21.54.10.png
Download

Eventually I'll update those to include the style 2 variants of the ships, and maybe a "heavy" Scyk for use with the opt replacer hook if it works as i think it may. Next up though I'll probably work on the M22 Krayt and then the Khiraxz.
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Post by Darksaber » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:12 pm

Some good looking craft you have there, well done :)
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Post by Bman » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:04 pm

Great job Driftwood. Could we use some of these for the TFTC project? What I was hoping for is a few more third party pirate/criminal gangster craft (i.e. Renekii, Nharwaak et al), and civilian/commercial craft for background traffic in some missions during ESB/ROTJ era. Not to replace any slots, but used temporarily for some missions with Jeremy's patch. I know we can also use some of the other misc. fighters like the Razor, Preybird etc. Variety is always good, not just combat against Y-wings and Z-95's that are mostly recognized as Rebel craft. Also does anyone know if there anything in Cannon/EU for a Rebel Alliance "shuttle" that existed during this time frame? The Lambda Shuttle and the StormTrooper Transport are Imperial craft which are used too by non-Imperial parties, so it would be nice to replace those with something else more realistic without changing the game play. Or rather enhancing it. :-)
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Post by Driftwood » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:52 pm

I have no issue if you want to use them in the tftc, obviously credit for the port would be nice.

I have been debating creating a handful of generic ship slots to utilize Jeremy's opt replacer hook to artificially expand the ship list. Generic stats and text descriptions for light/ medium/ heavy / shuttle, freighter, light/ med/ heavy starships and a generic station slot. I just haven't quite codified it in my head to write up anything more concrete, but it's on my list of to do.

I'm not super aware of any rebellion specific ships beyond the Nova Courier or the U wing. The rebels use pretty much whatever they can get due to limited resources so I'd say use what you like.

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Post by Trevor » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:12 am

You keep saying "port", do you actually mean that and if so what game do they actually come from? If they are built by yourself I would not say port since to port something means to convert from one game/console to another.

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Post by Driftwood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:13 am

I'm well aware of what "port" means.

The ships are all from Star Wars Galaxies, a defunct game that no longer exists, the Galaxies team has been credited in the readme of all the ships that utilize the assets. There are already a fair few opts before these recent ones I've put out, that were ported previously several years ago such as the YT1300, LT300, and I believe the Probe, to name three offhand.

Several other models I've been working on, such as the Imperial Raider Corvette were made by Warb Null for Empire at War, who has a no-strings free use policy provided credit is given to what he produced initially, also credited in the relevant readme.

The process requires some special software, access to the game files (or extensive manual re-UV mapping is required), and a boatload of time since you have to piece them together from multiple separate meshes, then cut up the meshes, add transparencies, pose pilot meshes, ect. What I'm doing is definitely not a straight "port" as there is a large portion of work involved in making these things even be capable of running in XWA, even with Jeremy's increased vertices limits. Sometimes it seems to come close to a pretty extensive as stuff has to be hacked off or re-meshed to bring the vertice counts down, or combined in ways not originally intended by the creator because the original models were not designed to be utilized in the way XWA must handle things.

And with my novice abilities "port" is entirely appropriate to state for sake of transparency since I am not claiming 100% credit for any content produced at this point.

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Post by JeremyaFr » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:07 am

Nice. :thumbs:

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:19 pm

Wonderful work!
Driftwood wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Fun Fact: FG Gold utilizes the Naboo Starfighter / Security Gold/Chrome colors as these ships were lightly used by Naboo Royal Security Forces.
Another Fun Fact: The design of the M3-A Scyk fighter reminds me of Borvo the Hutt's starfighters in Battle for Naboo.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Post by Trevor » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 pm

Cool, heh, I guess had I downloaded and read the readme I would have found that, my bad.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, porting isn't easy but I just wasn't sure if these were yours or not at the time.

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Post by DTM » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:44 pm

I've tested your crafts...and I found some problems :(
Here is my first report:

- M-12 Kimogila: no crash reported :) It has two warhead launchers: that means, it's impossible to set a no flyable craft without missiles.

- G1-M4-C Dunelizard: XWA crashes when laser hits. There are problems both in the base opt and Exterior/Cockpit Opts :( Cockpit POV in the shp file are wrong. It should be X=0, Y=78 Z=105

- M3-A Scyk: XWA crashes when laser hits. There are problems both in the base opt and Exterior/Cockpit OPTs :(

- TIE Agressor: XWA crashes when laser hits. There are problems both in the base opt and Exterior/Cockpit OPTs :( Cockpit POV have to be fixed a little bit.

- Nova Courier: XWA crashes when player craft has been hit. There is a problem with Exterior/Cockpit OPTs :( Laser Guns in the base model rotate around the hull: mashes type has to be fixed

- Raider Corvette: XWA crashes when laser hits :(

- Imperial Cargo Transport: XWA crashes when laser hits :(

Unfortunatly I did not have the time to test the imperial Gunship...
I think you have a lot to work to fix your crafts :(

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Post by Driftwood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:04 pm

Well that is unfortunate isn't it. That means there's something to do with the vertices count I imagine regarding the crashes.
Last edited by Driftwood on Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Driftwood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:23 pm

Just out of curiosity DTM do you have the XWA Opt vertex limit hook installed? DS said the opt vertex limit hook wasn't included in the DSUCP installer, or the XWAU one. (I didn't ask about the REBCP patch), but will be in the Luxury Yacht update installer.

If you don't I'd put money on that (largely) being your crashing when hit issue.

If you see here the Dunelizard exterior opt has a single mesh that is 532 vertices, instead of being under XWA's default hardcap of 512. The base opt has one with 545. (Doesn't crash on hit or destruction for me)
Screenshot 2018-03-11 18.10.37.png
One thing I don't understand about the opt editor program is that on the left with the corresponding mesh, the numbers are X, but on the window under the scale from/to button it says a different number. So that doesn't help my confusion much either, but the 512+ vertex error seems to be triggered off the vertex count on the left window.

The Scyk base, cockpit, and exterior opts have a single mesh with vertices 597 each. (Doesn't crash on hit or destruction for me)

The Kimogila has less than 500 vertices on all three opts, and I presume that is why you are having no issues with crashing with this ship.

The Nova Courier base opt is within the 512 limit, however the exterior opt has a few meshes over said limit ranging from 522 to 795 vertices. Cockpit has a mesh with 765 vertices. (Doesn't crash on hit or destruction for me)

The YE-4 Has 546 and 777 vertices in two meshes respectively. (Doesn't crash on hit or destruction for me)

TIE Aggressor has 555 vertices on the base opt over the default 512 limit, 520, 562 on the cockpit, 555 and 584 on the exterior. (Doesn't crash on hit or destruction for me)

The Raider has 684 vertices on a single mesh. (Doesn't crash on hit, but does on destruction for me)

The Imperial Cargo Transport has 747 vertices on one mesh on the unloaded variant. Loaded version has 747 and 621 respectively. And of course the 621 come from the cargo containers, so the included cargo container opt is the same. (Doesn't crash on hit, but does on destruction for me)

However, that said. I don't know why Jaeven is crashing with the Raider, or the Cargo Transport when they blow, assuming he has the opt vertex limit hook installed. but not the others, which realistically should be crashing with all the other ships you've mentioned, including the YE-4 and the TIE Aggressor, under the same conditions assuming he doesn't have the opt limit hook installed.

For myself, after more testing after you and Jaeven posted the issues regarding the big ships, the Raider, and the Cargo transport models do indeed crash, but on destruction for myself. I can take them down to 1/100 hull no issues, but once they hit 0/100 instant CTD.

Otherwise, I have no idea what is causing the crashes, or how to fix them and really could use some direction on figuring out what, and how to fix it.
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Last edited by Driftwood on Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:43 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by Jaeven » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:31 pm

I know I originally posted in a different thread, but since the discussion is currently going on here, I'll just change here :D

After reading DTM's post I decided to once again check all the ships, and I have vastly different results.

I have no issues whatsoever with either the YE-4, the Nova or any of the Hutt Fighters.

The TIE Aggressor has a slight issue with the weapons firing weirdly when flown by a player. No crashes, but the cockpit is a little to the left.

With the Raider I still crash once it explodes, the same goes for the Imperial Cargo Transport. But aside from these two, I have no crashes on any other ships.

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Post by Driftwood » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:05 am

Hmm... And I'm wondering if I've misunderstood something regarding the vertex limit per mesh. I'm re-reading the conversation in the OptEditor thread and it's possible I've misunderstood a few things which will require massive re-works of all of the ships I've done to date if I'm understanding it correctly. I'll definitely be asking for clarification because I'm at a loss at this point entirely.

If the vertex count is in fact limited to 512 per mesh, period, as I am now starting to read it. Then unfortunately some of the stuff I've put out is going to be inherently flawed and will require a massive re-model. Which is fine, theoretically, and will just take me more time and breaking up the meshes further, and re-release them as I go one by one.

But some may become entirely nonviable due to pushing the 50 mesh count hardcap already. The Vigo gunship bridge model for starters. Though, I've not experienced a crash with that yet. But I'd have to make some rather extensive creative/functional choices regarding that model since the total vertex count, while I believe in what may be a 65k upper limit, grossly exceeds 50 meshes if I break each mesh down to 512 limit.

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Post by Darksaber » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:12 am

No no Jeremy create a hook that increases the vertices count per mesh from 512. By default, the dll will use a value of 4096

the thread is here
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Post by Driftwood » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:30 am

So I did not misunderstand the new limitations as discussed in the opt editor thread? And obviously I posted in the thread you linked before, so I'm really second guessing my understanding now since that thread seemed pretty straightforward.

If the case is that I did not misunderstand the intention or functionality of the opt vertex limit hook, then I'm entirely lost as to what is causing the crashes and could really use some direction figuring out the problem(s). :hilfe:

So just so as I know, for my own sanity's sake, the following statements are in fact true?

50 meshes per opt, hard limit (not including LODs)
4096 vertices per mesh
Minimum of 8x8, maximum of 4096 textures
200 textures per opt

As most of the old opt limits are now defunct, and I can't seem to find JM's site anymore anyways. Is there any other opting information that is available anywhere? I'm still a novice at this and could use some advice about how to proceed or avoid issues like these buggy releases in the future.

Perhaps "we" collectively need to write new documentation?

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Post by Driftwood » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:49 am

Jaeven wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:31 pm
I know I originally posted in a different thread, but since the discussion is currently going on here, I'll just change here :D

After reading DTM's post I decided to once again check all the ships, and I have vastly different results.

I have no issues whatsoever with either the YE-4, the Nova or any of the Hutt Fighters.

The TIE Aggressor has a slight issue with the weapons firing weirdly when flown by a player. No crashes, but the cockpit is a little to the left.

With the Raider I still crash once it explodes, the same goes for the Imperial Cargo Transport. But aside from these two, I have no crashes on any other ships.
So the YE-4 seems fine, no crashes on hit or destruction, or misbehaving turret meshes?

Nova, same thing as above? Both as player/AI craft being flown and destroyed? I did however find and fix the turret issue, also updated the FG colors as somehow I didn't have them applied to the base opt.

TIE Aggressor, is it set as a shuttle/light transport? I had issues with it classed as a fighter, such as the turret not functioning. Works fine as a shuttle for me.

Raider crashes on destruction, I'm going to have to look into that further because I don't know what would cause that if the mesh vertex limitations are correct. I assume you are using 1.1 not 1.0? Because I thought I reduced the offending mesh from 5k something to around 3500 in the 1.1 version.

Cargo Transport I have admittedly not blown up to test it fully. Merely flew the ship and watched the AI truck around in one.

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Post by Jaeven » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:03 am

None of the above in terms of the Nova and YE-4. They behave properly, they can be shot, they can blow up and the Nova can be flown without issue.

As for the TIE Aggressor, the problem isn't the opt I believe, just the way turrets work in XWA. The best way I can describe it is that it works exactly like every other ship with a turret in XWA, but not how you'd think it would work based on the craft in SWG. When flown by AI, it works perfectly.

The Raider I re-downloaded this afternoon, so it should be the 1.1 version.

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Post by Drinkinmiester » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:15 pm

WOW

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Post by Bman » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:22 pm

Corran, my understanding is as long as you have unpatched your .exe engine and then put all of Jeremy's new patches (the .dll's in the main XWA folder and their .txt or .cfg files) the only limits are 50 meshes per model (the LOD meshes don't affect the 50 limit). That allows for lot of detail. You can increase the values in your config files to allow for more flexibility. Jeremy is working on converting Optech code into his XwaOptEditor I believe, which will allow importing HD models and 32-bit color maps etc.

Edit: I unpatched all of Jeremy's older patches before I installed DS's latest DSUCP, which includes most of Jeremy's updated run-time .dll patches. There might be a couple of things that are not included like you said. I manually included them. I'm not using the CPU sleep-time offset/patch.
Last edited by Bman on Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Driftwood » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:43 pm

XWA>DSUCP>REBCP>LuxYacht

Should have all the hooks, so I'm not sure what you're getting unpatching my EXE since I believe the values should be set at whatever those hook defaults are.

And I believe that limiting vertices to 4096 isn't necessarily a bad thing. I am at this point, with models that are not necessarily needing more detail when converted, trying to reduce the vertices per mesh to the 512 maximum, (like I did with the Profundity)

One issue I'm having though is using opt editor, or anything else for that matter, to convert textures to 8bit from 32bit. I'm suffering grey patches on some, but not all textures, strangely enough. If I don't convert the textures from 32bit to 8bit however, the ship is 100% black with no texture rendered. I've also used CorelPaintShop Pro X5 to convert them also, and still suffer the same significant detail loss.

I'm not sure how to fix this, but if I can get some help figuring it out, the converted textures would be much improved.

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Post by Bman » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:30 pm

I ran into the same problem using Gank's SWG Neb. B-Frigate. If you import texture maps (.png or .bmp) that have resolutions larger than the standard 256x256 or 512x512 (don't recall which), then the game's "Lightmaps" as Jeremy discovered, won't work. The model will look very dark in-game. But his lightmaps patch helps, and you can slightly correct this within his Opt editor. You can manually choose certain colors not to be dark, or you can select the whole model with the settings 255,255,255 to make the whole model visible in-game. The problem I discovered is that the shadows may not fall on the model correctly when needed. Perhaps the ReShade Project patch will fix all of that so models don't look "dark" in-game. Haven't tested that yet.

For using new 32-bit textured models in-game, you can convert "ALL" existing older .opt models to 32-bit textures, even though existing models won't look any different. It's an all or nothing choice, or the game will crash. Have yet to test that with ReShade Project files too.

The only other way to make things normal is to resize your texture maps down to the standard 512x512 or 256x256 old maximum limits.
Importing 32-bit colors and converting them to 8-bit within Jeremy's Editor is still the best way I've discovered, verses using a paint program to do it before importing.
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Post by Driftwood » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:13 am

So theoretically if I reduce my texture size down from 2046 to 512 I should not get the grey squares?

Noope, didn't work. Fuzzier textures, still have the grey squares.

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Post by Darksaber » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:01 am

Can you post an image to show what you mean by "grey squares" please Driftwood, thanks :)
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Post by CIDlord_1973 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:12 am

It's cool, i got some of those ships from the new x-wing game (Scyk and Kimogila) .
I wish this one for XWA...the Mandalorian Protectors Fang fighter.
https://anowishipyards.deviantart.com/a ... -609818619

I love itttt

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