Which joystick?

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Re: Which joystick?

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FFM-IGEL
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Post by FFM-IGEL » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:41 am

Hi rogue518, I know it sounds stupid, but do you also have ForceFeedback turned on in the settings?
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rogue518
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Post by rogue518 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:18 pm

Yeah,,, I did FFM-IGEL.. ;) Interesting thing though, when the joystick is stationary... the joystick started moving on it's own, but when you hold on to it, it is lifeless there is no force feedback.... :? In-game, I can move around but there is no feeling in the joystick if you get my drift..... Also my red light keeps 'blinking' so it looks like its not powered all the way. Also I plug the joystick into a wall socket... not a power-strip.


Sincerely, Rogue518
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Post by jmarso » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:09 pm

I was using a Logitech X52 Pro, but quality control since Logitech took over has gone down the tubes. My original Saitek one lasted years and worked like a champ until I literally used it to death. The replacement one lasted less than a year. :(

Based on recommendations here and elsewhere, I picked up a VKB Gladiator NXT (Premium) to use with my Thrustmaster TWCS throttle. So far so good, and pretty much just the right number of buttons between the two for XWA. Of course, kill ratio is down due to having to re-work some years-old muscle memory, and my gray matter is a lot older now than it was when I first started playing this game a lifetime ago.

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Post by Det. Bullock » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:14 pm

jmarso wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:09 pm
I was using a Logitech X52 Pro, but quality control since Logitech took over has gone down the tubes. My original Saitek one lasted years and worked like a champ until I literally used it to death. The replacement one lasted less than a year. :(
If the original Saitek you had was old enough it was probably before MadCatz started cutting corners in the production pipeline and components quality or you just got lucky, Logitech just inherited MadCatz issues because the only stick they produced when they aquired Saitek was the Extreme 3D pro so Saitek was basically transplanted as it was from one corporation to the next.
Back when I bought my current stick (2015) Saitek's reputation for poor quality control was such that I decided to stay away from their stuff even if my old Saitek ST200 lasted me a more than a decade.
Last edited by Det. Bullock on Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by jmarso » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:12 pm

Fair enough- I guess I wasn't clear on when quality started to slip. It's a great design, if Logitech would just up the quality control on it my guess is that it would sell really well, but its shoddy rep has overtaken it now.

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Post by Det. Bullock » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:41 pm

jmarso wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:12 pm
Fair enough- I guess I wasn't clear on when quality started to slip. It's a great design, if Logitech would just up the quality control on it my guess is that it would sell really well, but its shoddy rep has overtaken it now.
I don't think it's just quality control: it's the entirety of the production chain that is flawed, probably electronics and individual components are made on the cheap and thus are prone to fail (I know of X-56 that had the electronics fail, the guy that streams XWvm offhandedly mentioned that the buttons on his x-56 at a certain just stopped working altogether) but changing it would entail a radical redesign of both models rather than the few tweaks they had to do with the X-56 to at least make it a bit less prone to breakage out of the box.

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rogue518
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Post by rogue518 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:47 am

Well I also have the Logitech Force 3D Pro.....and it works!!!! :D

Logitech Force 3D Pro 1.jpg

Logitech Force 3D Pro 2.jpg

I just had to config the settings...... ;) I do miss my Microsoft Force Feedback 2, There is Force Feedback... but not like the MS FF 2, but this is better than nothing..... :D

Not shown: I also have a power plug attachment that you plug into your joystick and into the wall socket.


Sincerely, Rogue518
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Bman
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Post by Bman » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:22 am

I have that too Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, looks just like the above pic. Pretty stable, although on occasion it tends to drift. Recalibrating may or may not help. Sometimes rebooting or putting into a different USB port will fix it. I'm not aware it has any force feedback ability.
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Post by Det. Bullock » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:32 am

Bman wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:22 am
I have that too Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, looks just like the above pic. Pretty stable, although on occasion it tends to drift. Recalibrating may or may not help. Sometimes rebooting or putting into a different USB port will fix it. I'm not aware it has any force feedback ability.
That's the Force 3D Pro, an old variant with force feedback.

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Post by rogue518 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:40 am


Det. Bullock wrote:

That's the Force 3D Pro, an old variant with force feedback.

That's right..... ;) not as strong force feedback as Microsoft Force Feedback 2 :(


Sincerely, Rogue518
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batuta
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Post by batuta » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:22 pm

well i readed this post and bought a second hand sidewinder force feedback 2, 45 euros, when arrived i will post my impresions, never tried force feedback.

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Post by BattleDog » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:57 pm

I've been using the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro for the last four months in both XWA and Squadrons and it has served well in both.

I would avoid the Saitek-designed sticks, I can testify from personal experience that they have poor ergonomics. The sides of the stick are parallel and have almost no forward curved. That translates to no wasting and now palm swell, and the palm rest of both is completely flat. This translates to a sticks that doesn't mould to your hand well and needs to be actively gripped in order to be moved. Contrast this to the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, where none of your fingers actually need to actively grip the stick to be able to move it.

If you have small hands, like me, the Saitek sticks are unusable. My middle and ring fingers audibly creak on the x52 with the strain of trying to twist to the right.
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Post by Forceflow » Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:11 pm

Personally I love my X-52 Pro. I agree that there are quality control issues but the one I have has been doing good service for me for years. Every time I look at other sticks I just find their button layouts way less sensible than the X-52s. Especially because you can switch through the layers without removing your hands from the sticks
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Post by theonegalen » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:46 pm

I am using the Gladiator NXT - I haven't installed the new patch yet, but as soon as I do, I'm going to use Joystick Gremlin and see if I can build an XWA profile that uses my DSD switchbox as well as my NXT and X56 throttle.

Image

There is nothing like the tactile feedback of chunky metal switches! :D

(now all I have to do is figure out how to fly better)

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Post by rogue518 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:44 pm

Well, since I know that I can at least use the Logitech Force 3D Pro joystick... I am putting back my Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas set..... :D

Thrustmaster T-16000M FCS Hotas Set.jpg



I just boxed the Logitech Force 3D Pro joystick and shelved it for now. ;)

Sincerely, Rogue518
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Det. Bullock
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Post by Det. Bullock » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:32 am

rogue518 wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:44 pm
Well, since I know that I can at least use the Logitech Force 3D Pro joystick... I am putting back my Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas set..... :D


Thrustmaster T-16000M FCS Hotas Set.jpg




I just boxed the Logitech Force 3D Pro joystick and shelved it for now. ;)

Sincerely, Rogue518
It's not possible to mix and match I gather?

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Post by Vince T » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:49 am

I'm also using the Thrustmaster 1600 atm, shelved HOTAS again, got rather mixed oppinions on it
+ Handles well and all, but
- dumbest button layout I've ever seen, if you're using Joystick and keyboards the additional buttoms on the far end of the Stick's base are virtually unreachable and useless
- both controllers aren't really foot-sure, trying to use the hotas for throttle fails completely as the entire device slides across my desk rather than just the throttle lever.

I also have an old MS FF2 but that one suffers from its power cable having been chewed on on by a rabbit some 20 years ago and I just hadn't gotten myself to throw it away.
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Post by FFM-IGEL » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:40 am

Hi VinceT,
I recently bought a used power cable for my MS FF2 for 1,50 € in a small electrical store around the corner. You can easily replace the power cable. The USB cable is the problem because firmly connected to the joystick.

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Post by Vince T » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:54 am

Ah my bad, just checked, it's actually the USB cable that got chewed on
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Post by rogue518 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:46 pm

Det. Bullock wrote:

It's not possible to mix and match I gather?
Det. Bullock..... you can as a matter of fact, mine was set up just like FFM-IGEL ..... ;) I even check the settings. Well since I have both from Thrustmaster it should be uniformed.... :D


Sincerely, Rogue518
Last edited by rogue518 on Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by John85 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:15 pm

@theonegalen The switchbox looks awesome! I hadn't seen one like that before, I'd love to integrate something like that into my flying setup.

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Post by theonegalen » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:03 am

John85 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:15 pm
@theonegalen The switchbox looks awesome! I hadn't seen one like that before, I'd love to integrate something like that into my flying setup.
I really enjoy using it in DCS - I'm actually thinking of getting a second one soon. Using it for store/recall targeting and energy presets on XWA.

http://derekspearedesigns.com/p1p2.html

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Post by John85 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 pm

@theonegalen Wow that looks great (and not a bad price cf. Logitech flight switch panel, esp since I like the look of DSD better)! I'd have to figure out how to mount (and use) it. I actually like the look of a few of the other panels more. What would you use the toggles and rotarys for (I can think of things for pushbuttons)?

Also I hadn't seen the NXT (or anything from VKB) before. Looks like great equipment at a competitive price (and the SEM and THQ look like they'll be handy when they arrive, too). It would be a good step up for my X3DPro if I decide to upgrade.

I just need to find more time to practice flying (I never played these back in the 90s, just the Dark Forces series and original KOTOR). I've started into XW a bit, toward the end of tour 2 in TF, still in the prologue of XWA and haven't touched XvT. Trying to iron out hardware issues... (and what's free time when you have four under 8 and home school? :D )

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Post by Det. Bullock » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:41 pm

John85 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 pm
@theonegalen Wow that looks great (and not a bad price cf. Logitech flight switch panel, esp since I like the look of DSD better)! I'd have to figure out how to mount (and use) it. I actually like the look of a few of the other panels more. What would you use the toggles and rotarys for (I can think of things for pushbuttons)?

Also I hadn't seen the NXT (or anything from VKB) before. Looks like great equipment at a competitive price (and the SEM and THQ look like they'll be handy when they arrive, too). It would be a good step up for my X3DPro if I decide to upgrade.

I just need to find more time to practice flying (I never played these back in the 90s, just the Dark Forces series and original KOTOR). I've started into XW a bit, toward the end of tour 2 in TF, still in the prologue of XWA and haven't touched XvT. Trying to iron out hardware issues... (and what's free time when you have four under 8 and home school? :D )
Sincerely Tie Fighter is the best one to begin, the combat chamber missions are the most comprehensive tutorial the series has ever had (you did play them before starting the tours of duty/battles, right?) and the novella included in the floppy version does have some more useful tips. XvT has a gutted version of said tutorials, XWA by and large mostly explains what's new compared to older titles with little thought given to explaining the basics to completely new players and X-Wing might as well not have a tutorial at all because the historical missions while good to mess around with are not very good at explaining the game systems to new players.

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Post by John85 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:32 pm

Thanks @Det. Bullock. No, of course I didn't start in the chamber and went straight to the tours, BUT I'm still in the second because I went back to the chambers and am practicing now ;) !
I got out XWA to try the mods (which I'm struggling around because of hardware limitations, probably to be remedied this spring or summer) and XW to "sit" in a different pit for a try (I did start with the PPG on XW!).

Thanks as always for the advice, I'll look at those historic missions sometime, too!

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