Best Graphics Card for XWA?

[tsmi]

This is probably an old topic for you veterans, but I'm new to XWA....<P>As you know, Nvidia cards (TNT, GeForce) have severe frame rate problems in XWA, and Lucasarts won't help by producing a patch. I am so disappointed with the performance of my GeForce DDR in XWA that I'm considering selling it and buying a non-Nvidia card.<P>I wonder whether any of you have compared the performance of the GeForce with a Voodoo 3 or 5, or a late-model ATI card, and can advise whether the difference is enough to justify an upgrade.<P>Any views / comments would be greatly appreciated.<P>Tim<BR>

[Forceflow]

Well, I am not sure, but I think Voodoo could be a good choice for XWA. I myself own 2Voodoo2s. (Yes, that's two of those huge bastards!) And I have no problems whatsoever playing XWA...<P>------------------<BR>A Jedi seeks for knowledge, a master possesses it!<BR><A HREF="http://swguide.cjb.net" TARGET=_blank>The Star Wars Guide to the Galaxy</A><BR>The home of a masters knowlegde!

[Wedge]

Hey, well, to start, X-Wing Alliance runs in D3D, which is the native set that any Nvidia Card will run in, so you WILL get better frame rates then a Voodoo 5, but thats all. ATI's major card now, the Radeon is definatly a card to take seriously, its very fast, and it has good image quality, but it still doesn't have the BEST image quality. The voodoo 5 however, isn't the fastest card in the world (in Quake 3, so if you only play quake 3 and XWA, get a GeForce) BUT it runs EVERY game, and its FSAA feature is second to none, I get an average of 80 FPS in XWA with 2X FSAA on, which eliminates any shimering of textures and cuts down on jagged lines very much, but if you want the absolute best image quality, 4X FSAA will amaze you, all edges are smoothed (no more watching the stair case effect on star destroyers any more when your at a distance) and it still runs at 50 FPS, and in XWA, that is more then acceptable. All the current video cards are great, but the Voodoo 5 has the easiest install, less hassels, and an all-round better card for gaming, because of compatibility. XWA players, I would highly reccommend a Voodoo 5 for ya, the game will run fast, and look better then you ever thought possible.

[Smeg]

Imagine using SLI to link two Voodoo 5 5500s<BR>together! <P>------------------<BR>XWAU Rocks!!!

[Sylvester Sankey]

Hey tsmi.<P>I also have a geforce. Hercules 3D Prophet DDR- DVI. But i have no probs with XWA. Remember XWA runs with D3D. But when you use a bad (old version or beta) driver for your geforce... there will be some trouble in XWA. I used a beta detonator and i didnt got a clear pic. It was a total chaos. Use the Detonator 3 Driver(NVidia.com). This one is like an afterburner for geforce cards. Believe me.I think you dont have to sell your geforce and you wont need a patch for XWA. I have a guy who's playing XWA with voodoo 5 and it runs smooth. But in games like this you run better with a geforce. <P>------------------<BR>

[Wedge]

Here we go again. The GeForce line of cards, run the D3D API as its default setting. XWA Does infact run D3D as well, so you WILL get better Frames per second with a GeForce. Image quality is another issue, The Voodoo 5 5500 and the ATI Radeon have great image quality over the GeForce, particularly the Voodoo 5 with its FSAA, which no other card can touch. The Radeon I really woulnd't consider an option if you dont want to upgrade your video card yearly, because since it doesn't carry the speed crown, nor the image quality, I assume it'll be phased out in a short while. So, now its down to the GeForce/Geforce 2 Vs. The Voodoo 5. I run a Pentium 3 800 overclocked only to 840 and get an average of 97 FPS in X-Wing Alliance.. just over three times what a TV puts out for FPS, however on a computer screen, since the visual quality is so much better then a TV screen, 60 FPS is the MAX the human eye can detect. Anything over that is just bragging rights. On my second system, which is virtually the same specs, I'm running a GeForce 2 64 MB, and get an average of 109 FPS, which isn't that much faster over the V5 (note: I'm running with detail maxed out, rez of 1200x1024, high quality sound, 32 channels) Another selling point of the Voodoo 5 is that its image quality is unparalelled, Compairing the normal quality of the two cards, the Voodoo 5 looks much richer in color and detail, while the Geforce 2 looks a wee faded, not bad, just not the gratest. FSAA is the main selling point of the V5, at fastest performance, no FSAA is used, with 2x FSAA jagged lines are cut down to a VERY tiny ripple effect on the surface (you really have to look hard to see it) while 4x FSAA compleatly removes any jagged lines what so ever. The Geforce 2's FSAA is a compleate joke, setting FSAA on (it can only do 2x FSAA) is like a rock climber in a wheel chair, it just dont work that well. As for other games, since XWA isn't the end all be all of games, once again, you have a better shot with a V5. Glide is 3dfx's API of choice (being phased out with the Rampage chip set) wich is designed to run 3D games at an incredible speed. D3D however has come along way since its initial version, and has surpassed Glide in lighting effects. The Voodoo 5 is prized on its compatibility and hassle free gameing. The GeForce line of cards however are buggy, and the only game it truly crushes The Voodoo 5 in is Quake 3 (Nvidia basicly designed the Geforce around this game, so it could do it faster then any other card since its virtually the only benchmarking game half these idiot sites use) Sylvester pointed out that the Voodoo series was optimized to run the original Quake, and Unreal, but hey, guess what? They stopped, quake 3 is best for a Geforce owner. Anyways, all in all, the Voodoo 5 IMO is the best way to go, easy to install, runs everything right from the box, and can be had for $240 online (http://www.pricewatch.com) The Geforce 2 64 varient runs for $300 + in most cases, and its only true winning point is Quake 3, thats it. Voodoo 5 is the way to go.<P>(For Sylvester)<P>My qualification are included so you can see that I DAMN well know what I'm talking about:<BR>4 Years Digital Electronics, 2 Years CAD/AUTO CAD (hate modling tho, sorry guys) 1/2 done on my BA in Computer Sciences, 2 years working for a local computer repair/sales shop, and 1 year building and selling systems on my own, which is how I pay the bills. Experince in Windows 9x, NTx, Win2000, WinME, Linux (redhat is good), BeOS, and finally, I'm a hardcore gamer and sitting on a computer for a long time doin stuff to get things to run as fast as they can possibly go while looking great at the same time gives you alot of experience in little known problems.

[Sylvester Sankey]

Hey Wedge!<P>Thanks for your "short" description. You said that you have a PIII 800 overclocked to 840. Do you have pentium or athlon? I have a PIII 600 overclocked to 630 since 2 hours. I changed the external bus clock from 100 MHz to 105 Mhz. I dont know how far i can go without causing a burnout of my computer. By the way my motherbord is called MX6B/ EZ with 100 FSB. Do you know something about it or overclocking a Pentium III at all? Most of my friends have Athlon computers and i think they are different.

[Wedge]

Sylvester, try setting your FSB to 133 and attempt to boot, it actually takes ALOT of heat to fry a system, and it ALWAYS locks up before it fries, so if its stable, then your fine, if it keeps crashing on you, turn it back down. I you SHOULD be able to pull around 700 Mhz + off of it, but no guarentees that it runs stable past 650. My CPU is a Pentium 3, thus a PIII

[Sylvester Sankey]

Woohoo!<P>Sounds good Wedge. Thanks. I will test it. I know that you need alot of heat to "kill" your computer. What i also wanted to know is if you have an intel pentium or an athlon pentium. Both have differnt motherboards and different ways to handle. I hope you are right with your 700Mhz+ theorie. I think i will test it the howl night. <P>------------------<BR>

[Wedge]

an intel pentium or an athlon pentium, I think your refering to connection type, my pentium 3's are slot 1, what the pentium 2's looked like, my friend has a socket 370 Pentium 3 1ghz, an athlon is slot A or socket A. Basicly the socketed ones just look like older CPU's (normal Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium MMX)

[tsmi]

Wedge,<P>Thank you very much indeed for your very comprehensive reply - much appreciated.<BR>I have a PIII 600E overclocked to 744 and still have the occasional XWA frame-rate problem at 800x600. It's mostly when there's lots of capital ships around - maybe I'm expecting too much. I tried turning mip-mapping off, but the graphics look horrible without it. <BR>By the way, how are you finding out what frame rate you're getting in XWA? If it's a utility, what's it called?<P>Tim.

[Sylvester Sankey]

Hey guys!<P>An Intel Pentium has a different type or processor. Intel ones costs much more than the processors from Athlon. But you are right Wedge that Athlon computers use a different socket. And Tim....how can you overclock your computer from 600 to 744 without having some trouble with the games? I also have an PIII 600 MMX but over 660 some games ( EAW, Flight Unlimited III) sucks. And what is an PIII 600E? What does the E stands for? I also played XWA with 750 Mhz but its the only game wich runs without some probs at this CPU Speed.

[tsmi]

The Pentium III 600E is a Socket 370 FC-PGA Coppermine chip - the PIII 600 MMX was the last of the old Katmai Slot-1 versions. See any hardware website for details.<P>The early Coppermines (up to 750), unlike most of the later Katmais (550, 600), overclock very well indeed, without custom cooling.<P>

[Sylvester Sankey]

Yeah! My processor is very big and i think you are right. The offspring of the PIII, called Ithanium will have the old processor style like the first pentiums. But you can built your PIII up to an Ithanium with an adapter i think.

[Wedge]

Umm... Ithanium, I belive your refering to the Itanium, which is not a consumer processor. It is designed for servers and buisness class computers and is based on IA-64 Archetecture. The chip that is following the penitum 3 was code named willamet and was unvield as the Pentium 4. BUT even before the Pentium 4 is released, Intel is still giving the Pentium 3 a little more life to them, by shrinking the die size from .18 to .13, giving the Pentium 3 even more headway into the Ghz area. The new version of the Pentium 3 is code named Tualatin. The next version of the Celeron is code named Timna.

[Sylvester Sankey]

Hey Wedge.<P>The Willamet is the name of the new processor type wich was tested at the beginning of this year. It is built with a size of 1.8 mikron and runs at 1.5 Ghz without a cooling system. But the name of the new pentium was Ithanium. But nobody was sure if the name remains. But one thing seems to be clear that the new generation will not be named Pentium IV! And Willamet is the name of the new processor generation. The old style isnt fast enough for speed up to 1.5 Ghz. The structure and material is to conventional. Because the new one is so small and made of very few material that you are able to look through it. Thats the reason why you dont need a cooling unit on it. There is nothing you need to protect from heat.

[Wedge]

Sylvester, go check out <A HREF="http://www.intel.com," TARGET=_blank>www.intel.com,</A> or <A HREF="http://www.sharkyextreme.com" TARGET=_blank>www.sharkyextreme.com</A> Then maybe you can come back and we can talk eye to eye.<P>The Wilamet processor is named the PENTIUM 4<BR>There is no processor called the Ithanium, its ITANIUM which is a compleatly new archetecture (what I think your calling the Ithanium) Willamet will run at 1.5 Ghz, but not uncooled. The Pentium 4 will have a .13 micron DIE and will require cooling, I dont know where you get your information from, but you definatly wont be able to see through it.

[Wedge]

P.S. The pentium 3 still has more speed in it, Intel is releasing a 3rd version of the chip also with a .13 micron die. This should be able to put it up to 1.5 Ghz or maybe even past that.

[Sylvester Sankey]

Yeah...i will check it. With Ithanium i dont mean the processor. Ithanium was the name for the Pentium IV.

[tsmi]

Hell, it's all academic anyway, right? It'll be a LONG time before any of us can afford a Pentium IV or whatever it's called.......<P>Tim

[Wedge]

garr, for the 4th or 5th time, there was not a processor called the Ithanium. I'll use really simple terms.. Pentium 3 (current Intel offering): Katami/Coppermine/Tautin. Pentium 4 (next gen chip): code named Willamet. Itanium (not for consumer purchase, only buisness high end servers): Code Named Merced.

[tsmi]

We're getting too far off topic here chaps, this thread is supposed to be about graphic cards. Thanks.<P>Tim.<P>P.S. Calm down Wedge, you're not at work now, y'know!<BR>

[Sylvester Sankey]

The name Ithanium for the next gen pentium was canceled right after the test were started. Dont know why. So Ithanium was the first name for the new pentium. Willamet was the name of the new processor. I have a mag where this processor is pictured. They call it Willamet Processor. Dont know if this name still remains. But you are right Wedge with your statement that the pentium IV wont get the name "Ithanium". This one was choosen maybe for the first reports and they canceled it ( maybe because there was still a computertype called "Ithanium". This might be your industrial computer..Wedge.