Dunari's Casino

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Dunari's Casino

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:29 am

Hey everybody,

Still working on the textures for the pressure tank. Having a little bit of a hard time of it, so I thought I'd take a break and work on another model.

Here's my take on Dunari's Casino. I tried to do this model a few years ago, but could never get it to work in game, until now. Here's a screen shot with some preliminary textures.

Suggestions Welcome. :)
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Darksaber
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Post by Darksaber » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:59 am

Looking at the original model, it looks far more detailed than your model, nice effort but no, sorry.
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Ramshu
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Post by Ramshu » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:21 am

This model and textures need too much work, do not be discouraged, you just keep working at it.

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:23 am

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. What do you suggest?

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Ramshu
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Post by Ramshu » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:11 pm

I think you need use more complicate model, more polygons to get a more detailed model.
Same in textures, use more textures and more detailed.

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/11 ... arison.png
Look at this picture for example, the quality difference with the original model is amazing, creating a good model is to put a lot of creativity but more important is to work hard on.

A better example:
Original:
http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/IPV-1SPC1.jpg

XWA Upgrade:
http://boardgamegeek.com/camo/8b60ec5ef ... 312e706e67

"Nasios pa vola"

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:41 am

As I said, the textures are preliminary.

As to the mesh, it may not have as much detail in some ways as the original, but it has a significantly higher polygon count, making it much smoother in places where the original was blocking. I can always add more detail.

Ramshu,

I already know how much better and more detailed some of the other OPTs that have already been done are compared to the original. What I was looking for was specific suggestions as to how much and what kind of details I might add. I can add more nurnies and other surface features, and I can give the mesh more surfaces so the textures are not stretched over as large an area, making them look better...

But what I'm looking for are design ideas to make it a more interesting Space Casino. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I've got some ideas on how to make the textures on the spires more interesting, but otherwise, I'm coming up blank.

Thanks in advance,

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Ramshu
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Post by Ramshu » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:53 pm

I seek inspiration in real casinos, specifically in las vegas, maybe put some "flashy neon", lighting, would modify slightly the form to give a more attractive appearance.

"Nasios pa vola"

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darklord
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Post by darklord » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:38 pm

I'm sorry oldcode, I'm not seeing it. You very well may have a higher "polycount", but your geometry is so simplistic. I see basic cones, cylinders, spheres, ellipsoids, nothing that strikes to me an actual structure organically made in space. Sure you can put "greebles" on it but the end result isn't going to be what you want, not when the foundation is what it is.

Only when you have a solid model can you really even begin to think about textureing, which is very much a separate skill. Like ceramics next to drawing.

Lesson one about the creative process. Don't even bother showing people. Do it again. And then, do it again! And then, if you really are dedicated, do it a fourth time! You will always be able to do it better and with a stronger foundation. I think the hardest thing to learn is how to abandon a work. Especially when you are starting out. Your first works are always fundamentally flawed by virtue of being your first works.

You know what? I think the best thing you can do is study a bunch of pictures and then try to draw it on paper first. First as a whole, then secition by section from different vantage points. Only when you have a design fully visualized can you really try to put it in as an actual 3d model.

If modeling were easy, we'd all be doing it. :D

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:17 pm

Hey guys,

Here's my next attempt to do a more interesting Docking Port tower for the Casino. Its partially inspired by an image of the Capital Records Tower I just saw on a TV news program.

Trying to come up with some more idea for adding detail, but so far I'm drawing a blank. I'll sit on it for a while and see if something pops.
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Ramshu
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Post by Ramshu » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:30 pm

Much better :D

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Vince T
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Post by Vince T » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:54 pm

Interesting approach! Those towers already look somewhat casino-like. Keep going!
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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:18 am

Thanks guys,

Here's a little more. I made some windows that stick out some while beveling in the glass surface. The idea is the gamblers would get a better view. Would it actually work? I'm not an architect so I have no idea. :?

I've also started assigning some surfaces so we can apply future textures. The different colors are different surfaces that will show up as a separate mesh in Optech. The yellow squares are the window glass itself which will have its own texture, so we don't have to line up Windows on a larger texture.

Okay, back to putting my head into the vice so more ideas will ooze out.

Cheers,
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Tony Knightcrawler
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Post by Tony Knightcrawler » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:45 am

You should look at your face/polygon density consistency, especially in the "peaks" of those pylons. There's a drastic difference in polygon density between those peaks and everywhere else. It'll be distracting if one object is much smoother than another, when there's no real explanation of why. Besides, all those polys are going to waste because with objects that small, you don't need to spend much on their smoothness, again especially because the curves are so subtle. I'd recommend putting a structure at the base of each of those "peaks" to conceal the change in polycount.

Looking at your first attempt, I think you should ask yourself what the purpose behind each part of your station is, and figure out how to express that in the model. Like those orange glowy thing. Are they lights? If so, the struts shouldn't just stick right in them. It implies that the glass is perfectly welded to the metal, which doesn't make sense. They should be mounted with some kind of bracket. The lights are a little dull with such a round shape, too. See what you can do to make them more interesting. Look up some images of lanterns, neon lights, and the like on Google image search and see what you think is interesting.

Those yellow lines IMO should be modeled, not just textures. They look like they could give some great depth.

The center of the station, where the long thin light is stuck into... It looks to me like it's supposed to be a skylight. And for a casino that makes sense. So go ahead and play with that. Make it look more like glass. You honestly might want to consider looking into how transparency works in XWA, and seeing what you can do there. It'd be great to be able to fly above the casino and look down to see several floors of the casino. Don't need much modeled detail, this kind of thing is probably better left to simple shapes and textures. Especially with some opacity in there to mask what's underneath. With that in mind, think about what that gigantic light looks like under the glass. Maybe it's a central attraction of the casino. Maybe it's a really pimp elevator.

I'd also consider UVmapping your models, especially considering how many curved surfaces you have. Your textures are warping and stretching. If you project a square onto a curved surface, your square won't be a square anymore. Actually, a good way to handle this is (after you've completely finished modeling) UVmap the model and apply a checkerboard pattern to the whole thing, then adjust the UVmap as much as you need to in order to make the squares actually appear square on the finished model. Then when you start your textures, everything will appear as you anticipate.

You've got the drive to help, and the time to try. What you need is to imagine the function of what you're trying to update, and figure out what kind of details make sense for that function. If you can have all three of those things, you can develop the skill, and you can accomplish anything. ;-)

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:18 am

Hey Tony,

Thanks for your feedback and your advice, but I'm a little lost. Except for your 2nd paragraph, I'm not sure which pictures you're referring too. The full model on my first post, or the new docks I'm working on now? I'm starting the model over, doing one section at a time and will put them all together later.

I like your idea about the yellow lines (on the original, right?) but if I use the modeling tools I have in Lightwave, I start having the same problems I had with the propane take where many of the faces/normals are flipped in the wrong direction, so I have to keep many of the added details simple. No Booleans, and I'm not sure if I can use stenciling either because it might do the same thing. If I can't, it will be very hard to add the kind of detail I think Darksaber is looking for, but I'll keep trying.

Can you explain more of what you mean by "face/polygon density consistency, especially in the "peaks" of those pylons". If you're referring to the new docking towers, I don't see a problem. I created the "decks" of the lower part of the tower, and the orange tower by using a beveling tool and made it as all one piece. I wanted to create a tower that will be big, but smaller and not as grand as the spires of the main section in the middle where only the really big gamblers get to play. :D

The models I've created so far, both the pressure tank and the all the versions of the casino so far, all are UV mapped. The nice thing about Lightwave is when I apply the textures in the Lightwave modeler, then export the model to OBJ, the UVs are kept and used in Optech. When I apply the textures in Lightwave, the placement will be exactly the same as in Optech, then in the game, so as soon the model is ready, I'll apply the textures in Lightwave and not have to worry about placement. I just need to make sure that the textures work artistically. You're definitely right that the textures on my first attempt were stretched out too much.

What I need to do is create enough surfaces on the model that are small enough to use the small 256*256 textures we have well. One possible problem is Optech treats each surface on the model as a "mesh". If I have a six sided cube, I could make each side have its own surface, and each having its own texture file. If I were to bring this model into Optech, it would see 6 "meshes" instead of just 1. The number of meshes the Opt file can handle is limited so that's something we have to keep in mind.

Thanks in advance,

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Post by Gank » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:55 pm

pretty sure you can have multiple textures on a mesh. take 20K vertices as a hard limit, and budget you model from there, dont worry too much about vertices/faces at this point, you can always reduce later when you've got the whole thing fleshed out. If you're doing a opt this big and detailed its going to take some trial and error to get it ingame most likely. Big jump from pressure tank to space station tbh.

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Oldcode
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Post by Oldcode » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:59 pm

Thanks Gank,

Yeah, it is a big jump, but nobody else has even tried the Casino as far as I know so I figured there was nothing to lose. The version I first posted here may not be up to XWA standards, but its much much better than the original in my opinion and I use it in game for myself.

Anyway, I can't think of anything else I want to do with the new docking towers at the moment, so I've moved on. I don't like to try and force ideas. That never works for me. Here's a shot at the other towers. I found an interesting object that had some nice curves to it, drew out a line, and used a Lath tool in Lightwave to create a 3D radial object. Looks like we've got two big penthouse like domes on the top and bottom for the gamblers who are high up in the gambling world, but not at the very top.
New Side Towers.jpg
I've also tried to add some detail to the main dome, and replaced the structure under the main dome into a gem stone, going with the "come and make your fortune here" idea of a gambling establishment. Here's a shot of all the new parts of the casino so far.
New Casino Progress.jpg
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