And another one done! Presenting the Rebel Platform

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Re: And another one done! Presenting the Rebel Platform

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:06 am

All Flight Groups in Battle 4, Mission 5 have "1" and "42" below the departure condition, except the Shuttle Fey'lya's Pride, but only ATR Talon and the TIE Bombers Gamma and Iota have an "abort mission" condition too.

Edit: I'm perfectly aware that you didn't change anything about the ATRs beyond their waypoints.

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Post by Darksaber » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am

Now, now ladies play nice
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:26 pm

Can only speak for myself, but I wasn't in any way, shape or form sniping at Mark ;)

I've been going through some of the other missions in the game, and none of them have the conditions the ships have in B4M05, so I imagine it has something to do with it.

I'm going to run some tests this weekend, see what I can find out.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:20 pm

Darksaber wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am
Now, now ladies play nice
Sorry Darksaber, but since the maximum number of simultaneous weapons was increased to 256, B4M5 is no longer a mission "for ladies".
The Executor simply destroys every single object carrying the Alliance insignia in just a few seconds.
I must confess that I'm not able to complete the mission. The Executor destroys G/2 Sentinel, all the Medium Transports, the Alliance Platform Kothlis II and CRV Razor a long time before I can complete the mission. There is nothing I can do.

SSD Executor has "SS Patrol + attack G/2 Sentinel (Primary target) / Starfighters only if Rebels (Secondary targets)" as first priority order, "SS Patrol + attack REBPLA Kothlis II (Primary target) / Rebels only if any Ship Type except 85 (Secondary targets)" as second priority order. 85 is the Hyper buoy.
Since the completion of the first priority order would mean you are dead, the only way the Executor has to perform its second priority order is to trigger the "Jump to order 2 in R1" condition, which is "100% of SHU Fey'lya's Pride must finish docking"; therefore the Executor only shoots to Kothlis II and CRV Razor when the corvette is escaping.
In other words the most sadistic part is that the Imperials are showing too much mercy.

A mission rebalance here is almost surely needed. Maybe changing the Start 1 point of the Executor again would be enough.

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Post by Darksaber » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:41 pm

You do realise I made Laser Count from 64 to 256 is an optional installation and it's unchecked, so if you checked it before installing either the XWAUCPv1.5 or DSUCPv2.5 then that's your problem!

In versions 2.4 and 1.4 the option was checked so unless it was uncheck then it was installed automatically, but I changed that for 2.5 and 1.5

I suggest you reinstall and leave it unchecked!
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Post by Safe-Keeper » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:57 am

Darksaber wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:36 pm
Safe-Keeper wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:05 pm
I too am curious as to why you replaced the model. It looks awesome, but I always liked the original design, so maybe I'd have preferred to have it updated and have this new model be added as a separate station. Not to diss your work, mind, it look great!
If your happy with the default design, simply don't install the new station, if you prefer if the old design was updated, maybe you could have ago at modelling an alternate version?

When I update the XWACP then you won't have a choice.

Simply put and not to diss you, "If you don't like it, make it yourself!" :D
Oh, I'm not unhappy, and I agree, I was just curious about the creative reasoning is all :) . It's a great new model for sure!

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:44 am

I know that the number increase of simultaneous energy weapons is an optional feature.
My idea is to use a slightly modified mission when the option is checked.
Of course only if the community agrees.

Edit: Just tried a few other missions, and I'm afraid many missions with capital ships need an intervention.

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Post by Darksaber » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:45 am

I'd be grateful if you just fix the standard mission, if it's unchecked people are less likely to install it, therefore they play the standard mission, if you start messing with the mission so that it's easier to play with the 256 weapons, those people who haven't installed the 256 weapons the mission would probably be really easy and less challenging even on hard.

You have to give and take, I doubt anyone would want another set of missions to install, at the moment there are 2 sets of the same mission, I doubt anyone would want to another couple of sets to contend with.

If you want to alter them for your own use so be it, but again I would be grateful for a standard fixed set, thank you :D

Another thing is that there seems to be too many cooks in the kitchen, I'll take what ever gets fixed or comes first, I don't want someone fixing something then some one else having to fix that

Don't worry I'm not accusing any one of doing that, but you see where I'm coming from,

I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to mission design, so I leave that to other folk, but if it's wrong and I add it to the installer then I get it in the neck :)
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Post by Jaeven » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Just to clarify, how does the CRV Razor die? In my tests - which was wtihout the weapons patch - I noticed it was close, but Razor was always out of range of the Kothlis II blast.

As far as I know, if you don't ignore the ATRs, that is the only way for the Razor to die.

Also, did you intercept the TIE Bombers? I noticed that while the new Rebel Platform is more powerful, it is more susceptible to bomber attack.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:40 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:29 pm
Just to clarify, how does the CRV Razor die? In my tests - which was wtihout the weapons patch - I noticed it was close, but Razor was always out of range of the Kothlis II blast.

As far as I know, if you don't ignore the ATRs, that is the only way for the Razor to die.
I confirm this.
Tested at Medium and without the increased weapons patch: CRV Razor was always way out of range of the blast when Kothlis II exploded, and SSD Executor didn’t attack CRV Razor after destroying Kothlis II. I don’t know if this is because there were other secondary targets (all the remaining Rebel units are secondary targets, except the buoy) nearer the Executor or because CRV Razor was already out of range of the Executor’s turbolasers.
Jaeven wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:29 pm
Also, did you intercept the TIE Bombers? I noticed that while the new Rebel Platform is more powerful, it is more susceptible to bomber attack.
With Rookie AI “more powerful” is not so easy to tell.
As for repelling a warhead attack, I noticed the same thing you found. I guess the new form factor of the station doesn’t help much in this sense.
It is usually simple to intercept the TIE Bombers anyway, because they are moving at 60 MGLT.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:49 pm

I checked all the orders and the message conditions in the mission (B4M5) and I found no problems.

The following ones are the only remaining bugs in the mission (B4M5).
Mission Problems:
1) ATR Talon 2 destroys ATR Talon 1 (occurred 1 time in 25 attempts) - Explanation already posted before, and it seems we cannot solve this without editing AI behaviour
2) ATR Talons get disabled when their hull is below 50% (very frequent) - this has something to do with the "Abort mission" condition set for ATR Talon Flight Group; I tried to remove it and all got fine, but I don’t know if removing an "Abort mission" condition is considered a “too heavy” intervention
3) X-Wing Blue 4 collides with L/CRS Liberty while flying home and gets destroyed in the collision (occurred 2 times in 25 attempts)

Graphics Problems:
1) B-Wing fires all the energy weapons from a single point; the same thing happens with the Y-Wing in the simulator
2) When you take off in your X-Wing from the hangar, only 2 engines turn on if you look at your craft in the CMD, whereas if you look at it from an exterior point of view (press “6” inside the hangar) all the engines turn on
3) A turret on the ISDII is always rotating (already posted in DSUCP v2.5 Release topic, the solution is there)

Game/Graphic Issues:
SHU Fey’lya’s Pride moves through a “phantom Kothlis II”. In other words it moves through Kothlis II without colliding, and this always occurs even with the craft collision option enabled.
The same thing happens with CRV Razor and with ATR Talon 2 if you don’t destroy ATR Talon 1 (a bit rarer and almost invisible for the ATR, though).
I experienced these same problems with other crafts in B5M7 and I wrote them in my release notes.

Just to clarify: I’m not blaming anyone for these problems. The only thing I really wish is having them solved. I can help solving mission problems, but I’m not skilled with graphics issues.

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Post by Darksaber » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:54 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:49 pm
Graphics Problems:
1) B-Wing fires all the energy weapons from a single point; the same thing happens with the Y-Wing in the simulator
2) When you take off in your X-Wing from the hangar, only 2 engines turn on if you look at your craft in the CMD, whereas if you look at it from an exterior point of view (press “6” inside the hangar) all the engines turn on
1. What exactly are to doing for the Bwing and Ywing to fire from a single point, I've only known this happen when you switch from the Mission player craft to another craft, if this is the case I haven't a clue why it does this.
2. Again haven't a clue why it does this, never noticed it before I've checked the base opt which it shown on the "CMD", and the base opt is fine, nothing I can do about it!

Before criticising the XWAUP craft, have you tested the same thing with a vanilla install of XWA to see if you get a different or the same result?
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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Before criticising the XWAUP craft, I've also tested the vanilla version (it's actually v2.02) with GOG installation.
There was none of the 3 mission problems. B-Wing and Y-Wing also fired correctly.
As for the X-Wing engines they were all turned off in the CMD and all turned on in the external view ("6").
The v2.02 didn't have any glows in the CMD for any craft.

There were no crafts traveling "through" the station Kothlis II because of the different Platform form, but the "phantom object" effect is a thing present in all the versions of X-Wing Alliance. Example: in Battle 6, Mission 5: Steal Imperial Shuttle when you dock with Outpost 327, you can actually move "through" the Space Colony 2, regardless of the version and the craft pack installed.
Moreover, it seems this has nothing to do with the collision option.

However, the GOG version v2.02 is far from being perfect: the resolution is locked to 800x600 (I know this sounds impossible) and I could not make films.
The old "retail" CD version + update v2.02 didn't have these problems, but it's not compatible with 64 bit systems.

I am committed to find out what could have caused those 3 mission problems and to catch more info about the B-Wing cannon problem.
I will do more tests changing things and also trying with old versions of XWAUCP. I will report later this week.

By the way, a thing I've noticed in all the versions of X-Wing Alliance with or without any craft pack installed is that B4M5, as many other missions in the game, has no Mission Craft list in Admiral Yamarus' briefing.

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Post by JeremyaFr » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:20 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:38 pm
However, the GOG version v2.02 is far from being perfect: the resolution is locked to 800x600 (I know this sounds impossible) and I could not make films.
The old "retail" CD version + update v2.02 didn't have these problems, but it's not compatible with 64 bit systems.
Hello,
You can remove the resolution lock with XWAHacker by Reimar Döffinger.
To make films, you have to create a folder named "Film" in your xwa directory.
The CD version works fine on a 64-bit system. Only the setup program is not compatible. You can manually install the game or use X-Wing Alliance MSI by Markus Egger.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 am

I sometimes ask myself how can I have such a lack of brain cells.
There was no "Film" folder in X-Wing Alliance directory.

Thanks JeremyaFr, now I can look at the flight plans a little closer.
Your help is precious.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:57 am

Mission Problems:
1) ATR Talon 2 destroys ATR Talon 1 (occurred 1 time in 25 attempts) - Explanation already posted before, and it seems we cannot solve this without editing AI behavior
Confirmed. Nothing I can do to solve this bug using AlliED; and I guess editing AI behavior = changing the game (cheating).
2) ATR Talons get disabled when their hull is below 50% (very frequent) - this has something to do with the "Abort mission" condition set for ATR Talon
Found where this problem came from. In the original version of the mission ATR Talon had only 1 order (Attack CRV Razor), now they have 3 orders (1-SS patrol + attack CRV Razor, 2-Attack CRV Razor, 3-Fly home). This change was done the first time B4M5 was updated more than 10 terrestrial years ago.
I cannot investigate on why this has been done because there are no old DSUCP versions available.

I can make the following hypothesis.
The Start 1 point of the Executor was changed to avoid having the Executor (the old 17.5 km Executor model) exiting hyperspace at point-blank range to CRV Razor.
However, this change caused another problem: the ATRs were involved in the explosion of G/2 Sentinel, therefore there was the need to have ATR Talon going to certain waypoints, so the first priority order (order 1) was changed to “SS patrol + attack CRV Razor”, and the old “Attack CRV Razor” order became the second priority one (order 2).

As I wrote in my previous post, orders don’t pose any problems.
It’s the Departure via SSD Executor that causes the bug, because the ATRs are now performing a starship order, and as far as I know a starship can only depart via hyperspace, therefore if the “Abort mission” condition is triggered, they cannot return to the Executor.
Sorry for the long explanation.

Keeping this bug would make the mission way too easy compared to the original version because ATR disabled = no more ATR waves.

Solution 1 (highly recommended): Set Abort mission condition to “never” for ATR Talon.
The ATRs will fight to the death, but this won’t alter the mission too much after all.
Set Departure condition for ATR Talon “CRV Razor must come and go”.
Remove the third priority order for ATR Talon (Fly home) and the relative Jump to order condition.

Solution 2 (not recommended): Restore the original single order configuration for ATR Talon.
Obviously this would delete all the changes done to ATR Talon by other authors in the community before me, so I strongly suggest against this “for Purists” solution.
3) X-Wing Blue 4 collides with L/CRS Liberty while flying home and gets destroyed in the collision (occurred 2 times in 25 attempts)
The “Fly home” order doesn’t allow to set waypoints, therefore there is nothing I can do to solve this bug.
It's not very frequent after all.

Now I will deal with those annoying visual effects.

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Post by DarHan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:23 pm

Mark_Farlander wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:37 pm
One last thing: I also tried to select a B-Wing for both the missions (B0M9 and B4M5), and the result was that the B-Wing fired all the energy weapons (3 lasers and 3 ion cannons) from the same point.
I think this is a graphical bug, but I don't know how to fix it.
I’ve met this bug a lot before, 2.02 with XWAUCP, CD version. Essentially, if I flew a mission with a fighter other than the default for that mission, this bug was likely happen. One way to avoid it (though not guaranteed to work) was to fly the mission at least once with the default fighter.
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– Genius HAS limits."
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:17 am

I tried to fly the mission with the default fighter in the simulator and then I switched to the B-Wing, but I got the same result.
I also tried to uninstall the XWAUCP v1.5 mod and the game, then I reinstalled the old GOG version (the one downloaded before 24 January 2018) and updated it with the XWAUCP v1.3 mod.
The B-Wing was already broken: when it was not the default craft, 2 laser cannons were replaced by proton torpedo launchers, but the Y-Wing always fired correctly. Since the XWAUCP v1.3 is dated 01/02/2016 (seen as soon as the installer is opened), the problem for the Y-Wing has something to do with changes done after this date.
By the way, XWAUCP v1.3 is not compatible with the new GOG version of X-Wing Alliance released on 24 January 2018.




Mark_Farlander wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:57 am
Mission Problem 3: X-Wing Blue 4 collides with L/CRS Liberty while flying home and gets destroyed in the collision (occurred 2 times in 25 attempts)
The “Fly home” order doesn’t allow to set waypoints, therefore there is nothing I can do to solve this bug.
There might be a way to solve this one. Please take a look at my last 2 posts in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10896
Is there anybody willing to help me with the tests for the Fly home order?
It would be great if we made a discovery similar to that for the Escort (prevent boarding) order.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:31 am

I took some screenshots of those annoying visual effects I was talking about.
The Executor overlapping the Alliance Station can only occur when playing Easy.

I'll see what happens if I move down the station 0.50 klicks, but I will also move all the docked crafts accordingly to keep as many of the changes done before my intervention as I can.
Attachments
ATR Talon 2 and CRV Razor.jpg
ATR Talon 2 and CRV Razor.jpg (261.29 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Kothlis II and Executor starboard.jpg
Kothlis II and Executor starboard.jpg (434.5 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Kothlis II and Executor bow.jpg
Kothlis II and Executor bow.jpg (293.06 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Last edited by Mark_Farlander on Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:40 am

And these are the screenshots with issues concerning CRV Razor and the Shuttle.
Attachments
Shuttle and Kothlis II_2.jpg
Shuttle and Kothlis II_2.jpg (251.98 KiB) Viewed 357 times
Shuttle and Kothlis II.jpg
Shuttle and Kothlis II.jpg (258.69 KiB) Viewed 357 times
CRV Razor and Kothlis II.jpg
CRV Razor and Kothlis II.jpg (386.01 KiB) Viewed 357 times

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Post by Knightsaber » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:29 am

Man, that definitely needs some attention.

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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue May 01, 2018 6:25 pm

Solving the first 3 overlaps is quite easy, the last 3 are a little trickier, but I'm working on those ones.

By the way, is there a place where can I download the old 17.5 km Executor opt?
It had the hangar in a different position if I'm not wrong, so I need it to verify a few things.

Thanks for the help.

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