How about an XWA port?

You're looking on news for the games? Or just wanna discuss which game is the best?

Moderators: K_Kinnison, Darksaber

Post Reply

Is singleplayer or multiplayer more important in an XWA port?

SinglePlayer
13
59%
Multiplayer
4
18%
Dont Care
1
5%
Both
4
18%
 
Total votes: 22

How about an XWA port?

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:11 pm

Hey all,

I'm a now 29 yr old XW/XvT/XWA vet. I've played EA's new Battlefront game and I suspect many of you like myself found the aerial combat system very disappointing and arcade-like. I'm also sad to see Attack Squadrons get cancelled despite the fact that it to did not appear to line up to the X-Wing flight sim model. I just repurchased XWA on Steam just this morning and I've been pondering the feasibility of a free fan community-made port/remake, maybe even with a few enhancements. While I've been a longtime X-Wing player, I haven't been active in this particular community so I'd like to call out to all gfx artists here that maybe hiding in the woodwork to gauge interest in such a project as well as what you've witnessed as far as Disney/LEC in response to fan made projects.

As for myself, I'm a technical artist (code+art) and I've been working on 3D and games for the greater part of 5-6 years now.
Last edited by cosmas_a on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Trevor
Cadet 2nd Class
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:11 pm

Post by Trevor » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:14 pm

There have already been many such suggestions and as yet I have seen none come to fruition.

Advanced kinnetics would be pretty cool to have as a damage responce, i.e. "flight stabalisation damaged!"
Though of cource, it wouldnt fit the univers as a normal flight action (let the computer deal with slowing down etc)

Trev

User avatar
Jaeven
Ensign
Galactic Empire
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:18 am

Post by Jaeven » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:32 pm

Was the Source Code for XWA ever released? That would probably be helpful if such a project were to happen.

But since we're talking about improvements that'd be cool, mine would almost all be mission based. Get rid of the 64 message limit, give the ability to make messages longer and make it easier to add and play custom music.

Tuskin
Cadet 1st Class
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:01 pm

Post by Tuskin » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:05 pm

I wonder, considering how old the game is, if we ask the appropriate people they would release the source code for the game if it still exists that is.

I don't think it would matter if the game is still being sold. The source code for several games have been released while they were still being sold.

Jedi outcast and Jedi Academy had their source code released, though they were pulled because they contained code for things they didn't own.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:41 am

I feel like a source code release wouldn't be much good. There maybe some techniques to learn from but overall it would be more work to overhaul what is vs. starting from scratch on a newer more flexible engine. By today's standards the gameplay mechanics aren't that complex to recreate anyway at least if you were duplicating it verbatim.

Over the coming weeks I'll take a stab at some prototyping to see if I can get some basic behaviors in place. Nothing may ever come of it, but its a mental exercise at the very least. I'll post a link to the source and builds here.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:27 am

First post - A little something simple. A moving object through space via joystick control. Probably the smarter approach is to move the world around the camera. That way we could, in theory, have massive worlds and skirt the double precision issue. Maybe some simple Photon multiplayer connectivity next.

https://mega.nz/#!tpVlwAQB!hk4ecHglDOp9 ... gQqhZSntas

Let me know if there are any issues.
-Phil
Last edited by cosmas_a on Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MajorParts
Cadet 3rd Class
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:50 am

Post by MajorParts » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:08 pm

I was one of the people who started a Unity version. Being a novice, I got stuck early on but managed to get a largely untested multiplayer game going. I used the opts from the upgrade but never heard back if I could give out a link or not, so I haven't.

Drop me a PM if you want some help or are able to help me in any way and I might get some incentive to jump back onto it.

Your link requires a decrypt key or something.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:03 pm

Whoops there. Fixed the link. Thanks MajorParts I may take you up on that. I'm in debate somewhat, I'm worried about instability and the overhead that Unity creates, but it would be the fastest way I could get something up and running. I wish I could contact Paul Isaac, I'd like to pick his brain on how he handled some of these problems in Freelancer.

User avatar
Trevor
Cadet 2nd Class
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:11 pm

Post by Trevor » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:15 pm

I supose in those mechanics, XWA will be simple enough to replicate.
Input controls * Craft Statistic.

Laser/Sheild energy is timer loop * rate (0.1 - 1.9)

Lasers in space travel in straight lines, so fired lasers follow line and detect bounding boxes untill they expire at statistical distance.

AI however is a different story, thats what makes good games, good AI.
Bad AI make bad games even if good player mechanics.

Trev

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:13 pm

@Trevor - AI can come later. I would think that most players want a decent multiplayer experience recreated first. I'd certainly like to capture some degree of universe persistence as well. Not as crazy as a full fledged MMOG but something where players can create servers where they can have a 'home' of sorts and then travel to locations to take part in battles. I keep thinking back to Freelancer multiplayer and how much fun that was.

User avatar
Trevor
Cadet 2nd Class
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:11 pm

Post by Trevor » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:07 pm

AI can't really come that much later. If all you want is a MMOG then ok, but you would need to start with a lot of players otherwise its going to get boring real quick.

If you are to start with some players then you will need AI to control the rest of the universe untill real people populate it.

I do like the idea of building a fleet and going out finding your own fights, maybe with some spying and intelegent tactics to strategicly defeate the enemy. However, again AI would prove vital in such roles.

Would you include atmospheric battles? smooth transition from space to planet to ground?

I think there are other games that do this already and if I am not mistaken, people have built Star Wars ships for them too.
Orbiter is one, but it is very advanced flight dynamics and has no concept of weaponry or killcounts.

trev

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:58 pm

If you are to start with some players then you will need AI to control the rest of the universe until real people populate it.
Valid point.

Would you include atmospheric battles? smooth transition from space to planet to ground?
I'd certainly like to see a Hoth battle with snowspeeders that have a pilot AND gunner, nobody has tried that yet.
Planetary transitioning from outer space is very difficult to do single-handedly and requires planets with highly advanced quadtrees. The simplest form to implement immediately would be to 'dock' with a navbui or structure orbiting a planet then play a landing animation and load a new scene where the player is now flying around at the atmospheric level. Imagine mashing XWA up with Rogue Squadron, basically that.

Although I'm hesitant to go that deep into it, at some point we're now just talking about creating 'Star Citizen' which is already in the works. Granted its not Star Wars, but you know someone in that community is going to start a TC mod.

I do like the idea of building a fleet and going out finding your own fights, maybe with some spying and intelegent tactics to strategicly defeate the enemy. However, again AI would prove vital in such roles.
I did think of flying capital ships but I didn't consider fleet building. Now that's a good idea. I really want to see more happening in the hangars and also be able to see that from space. Currently in XWA a ship flies into a hangar and disappears. I feel like it should just land and stay there taking up space. We should also be able to visualize the maximum fighter capacity of any carrier.

But again, I don't want to get too crazy right away, that's how these projects fail. The first thing to do is to recreate the XWA flight and mission core, then expand from there.

User avatar
Jaeven
Ensign
Galactic Empire
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:18 am

Post by Jaeven » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:44 pm

This is just me giving my opinion, but personally I care a lot more about singleplayer. Elite Dangerous, for instance, hasn't ever felt anywhere near as fun as TIE Fighter/X-Wing Alliance/Freespace have.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:01 pm

Thanks Jaeven, it does help me to know. I've added a poll at the top so users can give me some feedback.

Tuskin
Cadet 1st Class
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:01 pm

Post by Tuskin » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:08 am

cosmas_a wrote: I'd certainly like to see a Hoth battle with snowspeeders that have a pilot AND gunner, nobody has tried that yet.
That isn't entirely true. The first 2 Battlefront games had a dedicated Pilot and gunner.

Though I don't think any games since then have done that.

crazyewok
Recruit
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:30 pm

Post by crazyewok » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:34 pm

I have always been a massive fan of X3 http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 32#4574432.
You fly single fighters, fly freighters or build huge fleets of capital ships and stations.

A Starwars game with similiar Mechanics is something a I deam of.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:20 am

crazywok,
What specific features did you like? I played about 5 mins of X3 then walked away, it was too dense for me but I can see how it would be appealing if I was a claims adjuster or an accountant. Maybe we can propagate some of those features though.

Quick little update from me, I haven't been working on the project much, I'm reading more about legalities. This is a nice article here. Given that I want to move away from a straight port there maybe some issues and even at that ports are no less capable of being shutdown anyway. So there's the big 'Is it worth it?' looming over my head.
Last edited by cosmas_a on Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
MajorParts
Cadet 3rd Class
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:50 am

Post by MajorParts » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:07 am

Is it worth it? I think so! For me, it's the learning curve (although I hit a brick wall in progressing mine). I shall carry on with it at some stage and if I get anything reasonable enough to release, I will just change the stuff that poses legal problems.
Call it Galaxy Wars or something and use original design craft. Nobody can say anything then and you still have a very playable space sim. Maybe leak an anonymous patch that changes everything back to Star Wars stuff?

crazyewok
Recruit
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:30 pm

Post by crazyewok » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:43 am

The open ended universe for starters.
The ability to be what you want. Either a fighter pilot, Freighter pilot, Pirate, smuggler or Admiral of capital ships. ability to own space stations.
Ability to modify your ships.

Problem with X3 was its learning curve. Once you got around that it was fine. But I think most its problems could have been sorted with a better UI.

A way to bypass the legality’s is to build the main game around a very very similar star wars theme but have non star wars place holders for ships and names. Then offer a "non official" mod with the star wars names and ships.

User avatar
Jaeven
Ensign
Galactic Empire
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:18 am

Post by Jaeven » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:13 pm

The problem with that is that you'd have twice the work. First you'd have to make the non-SW ships and then make the actual SW ones.

That's if you go for the completely new game route. I also have doubts that Disney really cares about a port for a game that is almost 17 years old. There are other Star Wars mod projects that push the boundaries a lot further than an XWA port would.

Of course the downside of a port would be that you could expand the game only so much.

crazyewok
Recruit
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:30 pm

Post by crazyewok » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:01 pm

Not necessarily. You don’t need to have great models or a abundance of ships for the decoy game. Hell a floating box would do as that’s not what the game really is meant to be or be played as. You designing that part of the game for lawyers not players. Hell a floating middle finger would suffice.

So more like one tenth the work that twice.

cosmas_a
Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:45 pm
Contact:

Post by cosmas_a » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

I shot an email off to the Lucasfilm licensing head asking them for an official position regarding derivative based fan works. That might give me an idea of what they see as legit/non-legit. So probably after the first of the year I might hear back and get a ruling.

Marcos_Edson
Commander
XWAU Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am
Contact:

Post by Marcos_Edson » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:47 am

Came across this a few days ago, you guys might find it interesting...

SpaceCombat open source game
SETI
"There can be only one..."
"I'm an otaku! Have a problem with that?"

User avatar
Driftwood
Lieutenant Commander
XWAU Member
Posts: 1318
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Driftwood » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:19 am

Tuskin wrote:
cosmas_a wrote: I'd certainly like to see a Hoth battle with snowspeeders that have a pilot AND gunner, nobody has tried that yet.
That isn't entirely true. The first 2 Battlefront games had a dedicated Pilot and gunner.

Though I don't think any games since then have done that.
BF2142 First Strike.

Space simulation was roughly on par with XWA minus the systems controls from what I recall. I also am fairly certain the Y-Wings also had a gunner position to run the turret as well.

Hopefully their stand alone game makes it.

There was also going to be a Star Wars TC for ARMA3 called Blue Harvest, but apparently the guys there got all paranoid that Disney was going to sue them what with Battlefront's release and stopped work prematurely giving us only a high quality Storm and Scout trooper w/ a speeder bike, some flags, and requisite gear. It was looking really good too and would have had a pretty great engine to run off of to suit the theme. Oh well. I'm sad now.

Post Reply