Mission Editor and Wingmen

Want to edit the game, build your own craft and missions? Here you'll find help, tools, guides and people to discuss with.
Post Reply

Mission Editor and Wingmen

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:36 am

Been so long since I've played with the mission editor I can't for the life of me remember:

I'm pretty sure there's a way to get members of your Global Unit to follow you around without actually ordering them to join formation in the mission. I've already tried the "Protect" and "Follow" order types do it. Am I remembering right or is this not a possibility?

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:52 pm

Update: "Escort" at least keeps them with the indicated target, but they're not using formations until you order them to. I know there must be a way to get them to follow you in a formation right off the bat.

Also:

Wasn't there a way to set an Arrival/Departure condition to be NEGATIVE?

Let's say you have a Star Destroyer attacking a base you're defending. After 10 minutes, you want a Calamari Cruiser to arrive UNLESS the Star Destroyer is attacked. If the Star Destroyer is attacked another Star Destroyer arrives to reinforce it five minutes after it's hit. You do NOT want the Cruiser to appear at all if the second Star Destroyer is in the area. Likewise, if the Cruiser is in the area you don't want the second Star Destroyer to appear.

Goals have a Must Not option, so one would think it should be possible to set this for Arrival/Departure conditions as well, and I THOUGHT one of the unlabeled boxes could do this, but I can't remember which one.

User avatar
JaggedFel
Galactic Empire
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm
Contact:

Post by JaggedFel » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:45 pm

There's a trigger condition called "be unharmed?", but I don't think I've tried to play with that before. The other option is to use Messages, since those have cancel triggers. Set a message to go off after 10 min, but cancel it if the SD is attacked. The cruiser would be set to arrive if the Message fires.
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor v1.15.6
Current software WIPs: TIE Layout and Cutscene Editor, TIE/XvT Cockpit Editor
Libraries / Format specs: *.tie, *.plt, *.tfr, *.lfd , *.act, *.dat image files, *.fnt

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Well, it wasn't a LITERAL example, but that could work.

Edited:

Actually, having done some thinking about it, I'm not sure that will work for my purposes after all.

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:52 am

Update:

I've tried using messages as arrival triggers with a Message Cancelled flag set to control if they display, however the message cancellation is NOT working. Even though the condition that should cancel a message is met, the message still displays anyway when its particular condition is triggered. I've tried using both other messages as Cancel triggers AND in-mission events, and neither successfully stops another message from appearing.

Safe-Keeper
Cadet 2nd Class
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:07 pm
Contact:

Post by Safe-Keeper » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:45 pm

I've been wondering about that, too.

Oh! I know! Instead of giving Arrival conditions for the CRS and second ISD, have them be there from the beginning of the mission, but in a different region. Then for your above example, set them up as such:

First ISD
[Do its thing in region 1]

Second ISD (in region 2)
Wait for 255 time units
Wait for [desired time], then hyper to region 1 (when ISD 1 attacked)
Disabled (when CRS arrives in region 1)

Calamari Cruiser (in region 2)
Wait for [desired time]
Hyper to region 1
Disabled (when first ISD arrives in region 1)

So essentially, the CRS cancels its mission and doesn't hyper to region one after all.

It's not perfect, but it's a working "if craft A arrives, craft B will not arrive" system :) .
Given that I needed such a system myself, I'm quite happy about having thought of this, actually ;) .

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:40 am

Hm, that's not a bad idea at all. Jump To Order # commands seem to work very reliably so long as they're properly configured.

However regardless of HOW I get the ships where I want them to be, I DO have a message that MUST be canceled under a given circumstance, so this still won't fix the problem I'm currently having.

Basically:

Message 1 triggers after X time with no other conditions.
If Event A occurs it immediately triggers Message 2 and cancels Message 1.
Message 1 triggers Event B
Event B cancels Message 2

The problem that I'm having is after Event B occurs, Message 2 is STILL being displayed after the conditions for Even A are fulfilled, even though Event B should stop Message 2 from ever being shown.

Event A IS successfully cancelling Message 1.

User avatar
JaggedFel
Galactic Empire
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm
Contact:

Post by JaggedFel » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:13 pm

Have you double-checked that all unused triggers for the events and messages a're either "AND Always (true)" or "OR Never (false)"? That'll screw them up, too.
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor v1.15.6
Current software WIPs: TIE Layout and Cutscene Editor, TIE/XvT Cockpit Editor
Libraries / Format specs: *.tie, *.plt, *.tfr, *.lfd , *.act, *.dat image files, *.fnt

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:27 pm

The unused triggers are set to AND Always (true).

User avatar
JaggedFel
Galactic Empire
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm
Contact:

Post by JaggedFel » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:49 pm

Okay so the Cancel for Message 2 is acting weird, have you also tried adding a "Message 1 must not have been shown" in the normal triggers for Message 2? Do you have another message that fires for Event B to verify that the trigger is firing when you think it is?
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor v1.15.6
Current software WIPs: TIE Layout and Cutscene Editor, TIE/XvT Cockpit Editor
Libraries / Format specs: *.tie, *.plt, *.tfr, *.lfd , *.act, *.dat image files, *.fnt

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:56 pm

That's the problem. The only "Not" conditions for messages are:

NOT be disabled
NOT be bagged
NOT be docked with
NOT begin boarding

Goals allow you to set a must/must NOT flag for all conditions. However messages, orders, arrivals and departures do not have this option.

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:50 pm

Anyone have any more ideas on this?

Also, I'd still like to get the wingmen to default to flying in formation when the mission starts.

User avatar
JaggedFel
Galactic Empire
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm
Contact:

Post by JaggedFel » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:27 pm

Have you tried the "Escort" orders? That won't necessarily make them use the same formation as you, but they should stick pretty close until you're attacked.

For the triggers at this point I'd have to throw together a mock-up and tinker, but I don't have a ton of free time.
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor v1.15.6
Current software WIPs: TIE Layout and Cutscene Editor, TIE/XvT Cockpit Editor
Libraries / Format specs: *.tie, *.plt, *.tfr, *.lfd , *.act, *.dat image files, *.fnt

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:18 pm

Yeah, I'm already using the "Escort" orders. Works well enough, but would be a lot prettier if there was a way to get them to actually use the formations by default.

The Saxman
Admiral (Moderator)
Posts: 3458
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2000 12:01 am

Post by The Saxman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:01 pm

Anyone else have some luck with the triggers?

User avatar
ual002
XWAU Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:23 am

Post by ual002 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:17 am

Reviving this dead thread hoping a more elegant formation solution to the Escort(prevent boarding) order has been found? Saxman, any luck?
Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Mark_Farlander
Rebel Alliance
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by Mark_Farlander » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:48 am

I've just opened B7M4, the Second Death Star tunnel mission, with AlliED and I found that X-Wing Red 1, the craft right behind the Millennium Falcon, has just the usual "Escort (prevent boarding): FALC Falcon" as the first priority order (order 1).

On the other hand, the A-Wing Green Flight Group, Y-Wing Gold 5 and X-Wing Red 2 have "Attack targets: Global Group 1" as the first priority order (order 1) and "Escort (prevent boarding): FALC Falcon" only as the fourth priority order (order 4).
The curious thing is that they also have the "Jump to order 4 in R1" condition "100% of Global Group 1 must be destroyed", but they always keep following you even if there are some TIEs or ZG/S (GG1) left.

The answer should be in that "No Effect?: 16" at the bottom left, but the order used is still the old "Escort (prevent boarding)".
My conclusion: the original mission designers were already satisfied with this solution, and finding another one could require extensive editing on the AI behavior.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

User avatar
ual002
XWAU Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:23 am

Post by ual002 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:52 pm

I found a family mission (1b0m2fw) where FRS Andrasta has an order (order 3) in R2 to Escort (prevent boarding) with a bottom left hand "no effect" setting of 8. So yes I would agree that there is something there. Just what exactly? I guess it will take some experimentation. Additionally, it seems like the bottom right hand "no effect?" setting has no effect on formations.

EDIT: I can confirm setting 16 sets the formation to trail. Which makes sense in the mission you were quoting earlier because its a fly through a tunnel. And setting to 15 appears to create Echelon left.

Escort (prevent boarding): Formation Test list
Orders page, bottom left hand "No Effect?" setting
Notes: Seems like the escorting group doesn't form to the escortee as so much as keep formation with escortee in their own formation, if that makes sense. Therefore some formations may seem more useful than others. I starred the useful ones.

44 - Far trail vic

27 - Vic with lead escort centered on escortee (causes collisions)
26 - right low rear vic
25 - Low rear vic ****
24 - Left low rear vic
23 - Right low vic
22 - Low vic centered on the number 1 escort
21 - Left low vic
20 - Like 11 but low
19 - Low vic, escortee in center ****
18 - Like 9 but low.
17 - Right rear vic ****
16 - rear vic *****
15 - Left rear vic *****
14 - Unknown Formation (Vic Right?)
13 - Single point? (Causes player collisions)
12 - Left rear vic?
11 - Vic, but the escortee is wedged between the number 3 and number 5 slot, if you consider the lead escort as 1.
10 - Vic, escortee may be directly behind 1 slot. (Results in player collision)
9 - Vic, but the escortee is wedged between the number 2 and number 4 slot, if you consider the lead escort as 1.
8 - Right high rear vic
7 - High rear vic
6 - Left high rear vic
5 - Right high vic
4 - High vic, escortee in center *****
3 - Left high vic
2 - Like 11 but high
1 - Similar to 4
0 - Like 9 but High

Further testing is required. But the No Effect? setting itself seems to just determine what position the lead escort takes.
Last edited by ual002 on Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:38 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Jaeven
XWAU Member
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:18 am

Post by Jaeven » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:43 pm

Very interesting stuff.

Going to test this tomorrow and post my results.

User avatar
Mark_Farlander
Rebel Alliance
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:57 am

I really appreciate your experimentation on that number in the bottom left box.
So we have discovered that while for the "Attack targets" order it allows to choose the specific component to attack (Main Hull, Wing, Gun Turret, Engine, ...), for the "Escort (prevent boarding)" order it indicates the type of craft formation.

Well, I'm relatively new in the forum, but I think it would be better to keep all the AlliED "Unknowns" in a single topic to avoid scattering in too many different topics and losing precious info in this way.
So I suggest you post your results here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10819

Of course even partial lists would be worth posting.
ual002 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:52 pm
Therefore some formations may seem more useful than others. I starred the useful ones.
And the "useless" formations are meaningful as well, so if you have news on those ones, I think you should not refrain from posting them.

Your tests will give a huge hand to whoever updates the missions of the original campaign or builds missions for a new one.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

User avatar
ual002
XWAU Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:23 am

Post by ual002 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:05 am

II'll post in the Unknowns thread when I have more of the list fleshed out.
Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
ual002
XWAU Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:23 am

Post by ual002 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:56 pm

Ok, so let me sum up my findings so far.

The bottom left "No Effect?" setting for the escort (prevent boarding) order should be called "Position in relation to escortee", or "anchor point". Because the escort's formation set like normal will actually set the formation, setting the "Position in relation to escortee" just sets the anchor point. With some testing I was able to replicate this formation [https://i.imgur.com/NANrx2c.png] with the following settings.

- Shuttle is just simply player.

- I created 2 groups of TIE Fighters with two fighters each.

- Both are set to escort (prevent boarding) my shuttle

- One flight of TIEs is set to "anchor point" 17, remember this is the No Effect setting and with testing I determined 17 to be "Right rear". I set its formation normally to abreast left, spacing 4.

-The other flight of TIEs is set to "anchor point" 15, this I determined was "left rear". I set its normal formation to abreast right, spacing 4

Here's a vid. Forgive the stupid triple wide recording space. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyfL91P4dE&t=5s
Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Mark_Farlander
Rebel Alliance
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:41 am

I've noticed that in some missions fighters collide with the Liberty while performing the Fly home order.
This problem occurred in Battle 5, Mission 7, but it gets automatically solved when fixing the hyperspace singularity.
However, I have also experienced the same problem in Battle 4, Mission 5, a mission with no hyperspace singularities.
I'm working on this mission due to the release of the new Alliance Platform, but I'm also seeking what causes other problems which can occur.

I was wondering if the 3 "No Effect?" boxes for the "Fly home" order have similar effects to those of the "Escort (prevent boarding)" order, and if they can be set in such a way to avoid the collisions.
In particular I'm searching the answers to these 3 questions:
1) Are there any values which allow to set waypoints for the Fly home order?
It seems it's not possible, even changing the third "No Effect?" box (that on the right) from 0 to 1.
2) Is it possible to select the formation fighters use while flying home by changing 1 of the 3 numbers?
3) Can any of the 3 numbers influence the distance from the cruiser where fighters switch from "Flying home" to "Entering hangar"?

In both the missions where I experienced this problem the 3 numbers on the "No Effect?" boxes are set to 1-1-0 for all the fighter Flight Groups performing the Fly Home order.
In Battle 1, Mission 7 the B-Wings never collide with C/CRS Defiance while performing the Fly Home order as far as I've seen, and the "No Effect?" boxes are set to 7-1-0 for the first B-Wing FG, 10-1-0 for the second and 4-1-0 for the third.
I guess this has nothing to do with waypoints since no waypoints are set for such order, but it could influence formation or the distance from the cruiser where fighters switch from "Flying home" to "Entering hangar".

I would be very grateful to whoever wishes to do some tests changing the numbers in those 3 boxes for the Fly home order.

One last thing: all the X-Wing Flight Groups in Battle 1, Mission 7 have 15-1-0 in the Fly Home order (except from the player's Flight Group), but they never perform such order.
This has surely nothing to do with those numbers. The reason why the X-Wings never return to C/CRS Defiance is a bug on the "Jump to order 4 in R2" condition.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

User avatar
ual002
XWAU Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:23 am

Post by ual002 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:04 pm

This right here is what gets us experimenting.

"One last thing: all the X-Wing Flight Groups in Battle 1, Mission 7 have 15-1-0 in the Fly Home order (except from the player's Flight Group), but they never perform such order. "
Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Mark_Farlander
Rebel Alliance
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 pm

No. It seems I didn't explain well.

This is what needs to be investigated:
Mark_Farlander wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:41 am
In Battle 1, Mission 7 the B-Wings never collide with C/CRS Defiance while performing the Fly Home order as far as I've seen, and the "No Effect?" boxes are set to 7-1-0 for the first B-Wing FG, 10-1-0 for the second and 4-1-0 for the third.
I guess this has nothing to do with waypoints since no waypoints are set for such order, but it could influence formation or the distance from the cruiser where fighters switch from "Flying home" to "Entering hangar".

I was wondering if setting a number different from 1 in the first box (the left one) can modify formation or the distance from the cruiser where fighters switch from "Flying home" (on your CMD) to "Entering hangar" (on your CMD).





Whereas this is simply caused by a mission bug:
Mark_Farlander wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:41 am
One last thing: all the X-Wing Flight Groups in Battle 1, Mission 7 have 15-1-0 in the Fly Home order (except from the player's Flight Group), but they never perform such order.
This has surely nothing to do with those numbers. The reason why the X-Wings never return to C/CRS Defiance is a bug on the "Jump to order 4 in R2" condition.

Therefore if you wish to have the X-Wings coming back to the Defiance and test what 15 in the first box (the left one) does, you have to change the "Jump to order 4 in R2" condition for the X-Wing Flight Groups from "C/CRS Defiance must arrive in Region #0" to "C/CRS Defiance must arrive in Region #2", because there is no Region #0 in X-Wing Alliance missions.
The Regions are always numbered from 1 to 4.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

Post Reply