Still choppy

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Still choppy

kev11106
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Post by kev11106 » Wed May 19, 2021 8:41 pm

Is it my framerate? Tried messing with Interleaved Reprojection. No change. Is there a way within the sim to know that it has Bluemax's latest? The reticle distancing works but is there a version # somewhere ingame?

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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Wed May 19, 2021 9:19 pm

The ddraw.dll file itself can show you the version if you put your cursor over it in the Explorer. Otherwise, you can download the latest version from the Downloads page.

We may also need a bit more context to understand the problem and provide useful advice.

kev11106
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Post by kev11106 » Thu May 20, 2021 1:09 am

I downloaded and installed the update you posted on 5/18. No visual improvements. The VR imagery is still shaking like mad. Went thru the readmes and discovered Interleaved Reprojection. Played with that and got a slightly smoother display but it's still not ready for human consumption. When did you drop the holo-reticle? 5/18? That works. If you dropped that on 5/18, then I know I have it.

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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Fri May 21, 2021 5:58 pm

I still feel like I just butted into the middle of a conversation and I missed a lot of relevant context.

For instance, I don't know what you mean by "choppy". Are you referring to the frame rate? Choppy for me is not the same as "shaking like mad", so that sounds like it's a different problem. I also don't know when this happens (Does it happen all the time? Does it happen in the concourse? In the hangar? While flying? When the screen is busy? When the screen is empty?) I also don't know what's a "holo-reticle" or what you mean by "dropping it".

Sorry, I can't help.

kev11106
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Post by kev11106 » Fri May 21, 2021 7:29 pm

By choppy I mean there is no smooth transition from one view position(frame) to the next. Even if I don't move my head. It looks like someone is shaking me by the lapels.
I've only been in the private quarters and the sim. The last screen before the sim starts(the load line screen)shakes up and down like mad.
The "holo-reticle" is the holographic reticle that is manipulated by holding ctrl-alt-left-right-up-down.
"Dropping it" = Releasing it to the public.

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darklord
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Post by darklord » Fri May 21, 2021 9:16 pm

but it's still not ready for human consumption
I think you need to curb your expectations a bit... It's a 20+ year game and the fact it does anything in VR is close to a mild miracle

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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm

When the game is loading a match, it won't refresh the display, so there's nothing to display in VR either. If you move your head while the game loads, it will jump like crazy because of that. This isn't a problem with VR, it's a "limitation" of the game engine.

However, your experience inside the Concourse should be smooth. When flying it might be choppy at times (when the screen is busy), but you should still have a playable experience. Do not expect to get a steady 90fps, though. This is just not possible at the moment for a number of reasons.

Take a look at these threads for more performance tips:

https://forums.xwaupgrade.com/viewtopic ... 36&t=12827
https://forums.xwaupgrade.com/viewtopic ... 36&t=12490

kev11106
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Post by kev11106 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:45 pm

Understood. Since speaking to you last, I've found the tutorials(the links you provided above) on the forum. It has gone from an earthquake to a mild sneeze. The only reason I had expected smoother was the vr readme in the last update. To be clear, I was only ever speaking of my setup. I wasn't speaking of the project itself. I get that this is a minor miracle. Bless y'all for the effort and the grind. ...and thank you Max. I know you didn't have to get back to me. Lastly, I'm betting DLSS is a pipe dream, yes?

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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm

I did find a spot in the code that *may* be causing this juddering. I'll try to do something about it, so thanks for bringing up this point. There's still room from improvement here, and I'm aware of that.

I didn't know DLSS was already a thing. I knew about the technology, but not that it was already available. The thing that i didn't like much is that it has to be trained on per-game basis. I haven't seen what are the requirements, but if it works with DX11 then it might be reasonable to add support for that in the near future.

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Post by kev11106 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:42 pm


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Forceflow
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Post by Forceflow » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:31 pm

blue_max wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm
I did find a spot in the code that *may* be causing this juddering. I'll try to do something about it, so thanks for bringing up this point. There's still room from improvement here, and I'm aware of that.

I didn't know DLSS was already a thing. I knew about the technology, but not that it was already available. The thing that i didn't like much is that it has to be trained on per-game basis. I haven't seen what are the requirements, but if it works with DX11 then it might be reasonable to add support for that in the near future.
Honestly DLSS is a pretty big pipe-dream. I think it would make a lot more sense to check out FSR from AMD. It's part of AMDs open source program, it supports all GPUs (not only AMD but also nVidia as well as much older cards. DLSS only supports nVidia 20-series and above) While DLSS is apparently superior in the overall image quality, performance wise FSR seems to be at least on equal terms and I really don't think the difference in image quality is something that will be noticeable at all in XWA. So all in all I really do think FSR is the more sensible way to go here...
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Post by Forceflow » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:46 pm

@blue_max you might want to look at this:
https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr
There are apparently already applications for it for VR, this is limited to D3D11, but it might be a good start to look.
Murphy was an optimist! I am a pessimist!
And always remember that a smile is cheaper than a bullet! (District 9)
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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:29 pm

Forceflow wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:46 pm
@blue_max you might want to look at this:
https://github.com/fholger/openvr_fsr
There are apparently already applications for it for VR, this is limited to D3D11, but it might be a good start to look.
Thanks FF. Yes, this has been brought up recently. The problem is that OpenVR_FSR needs the latest OpenVR, which doesn't work with our current code. I believe m0rgg has done some progress in the conversion, but it will take some time.

Since I'm here: @kev11106, the latest effects beta has some fixes by m0rgg that address the jittering. Several users have reported little to no jittering with this update, you should check it out too.

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Post by kev11106 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:53 pm

@blue_max Threw that in yesterday along with the TFTC update which seemed to help a little bit. So close...

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m0rgg
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Post by m0rgg » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:34 am

About DLSS, I don't think it's doable in the short term. It requires some frame data that is not available today:

"On each evaluate call (i.e. each frame), provide:
The raw color buffer for the frame (in HDR or LDR/SDR space).
Screen space motion vectors that are: accurate and calculated at 16 or 32 bits per-pixel; and updated each frame.
The depth buffer for the frame.
The exposure value (if processing in HDR space)."

OpenVR FSR is indeed a better candidate, but it crashes even after fixing the code for the latest OpenVR. I'll give it another look when I have more time, but I see it more like something for the future.

I think there are bigger performance optimizations possible related to GPU-CPU sync. The current SteamVR fix for the jitter makes the rendering highly inefficient, with the GPU and CPU not working correctly in parallel.

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Post by kev11106 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:03 pm

Max, the 11-30... Tears of joy. Thank you.

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Post by kev11106 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:42 pm

Just threw VRSS at it. Good Lord, we happy...

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m0rgg
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Post by m0rgg » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:32 pm

I'm glad to read it. If you could document your config and process you could make more people happy 😁

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Post by kev11106 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:46 pm

This is me...

NVIDIA System Information report created on: 12/08/2021 12:38:06
System name: DESKTOP-BGCJ1D8

[Display]
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
DirectX version: 12.0
GPU processor: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090
Driver version: 497.09
Driver Type: DCH
Direct3D feature level: 12_1
CUDA Cores: 10496
Resizable BAR No
Core clock: 1800 MHz
Memory data rate: 19.50 Gbps
Memory interface: 384-bit
Memory bandwidth: 936.10 GB/s
Total available graphics memory: 32725 MB
Dedicated video memory: 24576 MB GDDR6X
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 8149 MB
Video BIOS version: 94.02.42.C0.02
IRQ: Not used
Bus: PCI Express x16 Gen3
Device Id: 10DE 2204 39823842
Part Number: G132 0010

[Components]

nvui.dll 8.17.14.9709 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdplcy.dll 8.17.14.9709 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdbat.dll 8.17.14.9709 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdapix.dll 8.17.14.9709 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
NVCPL.DLL 8.17.14.9709 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvCplUIR.dll 8.1.940.0 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvCplUI.exe 8.1.940.0 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvWSSR.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvWSS.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvViTvSR.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Video Server
nvViTvS.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Video Server
nvLicensingS.dll 6.14.14.9709 NVIDIA Licensing Server
nvDevToolSR.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Licensing Server
nvDevToolS.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server
nvDispSR.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Display Server
nvDispS.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA Display Server
PhysX 09.21.0713 NVIDIA PhysX
NVCUDA64.DLL 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA CUDA 11.5.121 driver
nvGameSR.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server
nvGameS.dll 30.0.14.9709 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server

Plus a fully updated Oculus Quest 2. I also have a Pimax 8K plus but unfortunately, there is a ghosting effect in that image. It's very tight tho, imagine Gran Turismo a tenth of a second behind in practice mode...

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blue_max
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Post by blue_max » Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:54 pm

kev11106 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:03 pm
Max, the 11-30... Tears of joy. Thank you.
I'm glad you liked it, but you should be thanking m0rgg: he's the one that made all the improvements in the VR code for that update.

kev11106
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Post by kev11106 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:06 pm

I stand corrected. m0rgg, thank you.

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