VSD v2 Ultimate Edition WIP & Discussion

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VSD v2 Ultimate Edition WIP & Discussion

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General_Trageton

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Post by General_Trageton » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:00 pm

Edit: I‘ve split this part from Bman‘s ISD2 thread so we‘re no longer hijacking it for the wings debate

I challenge thee!
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JeremyaFr
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Post by JeremyaFr » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:08 pm

Nice

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:10 pm

An open winged VSD :shock:

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Post by Bman » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:48 pm

Sweet GT! The traditional VSD-I. Maybe for the VSD-II you could keep wings closed. I like both designs. Hope you release that in 32-bit HD format besides the usual 8-bit format. I will for sure with ISD-II. :-) XWAOptEditor doesn't have the illumination feature added yet and OPTech2.0 doesn't support ARGB exports I think. Anyway great job. Challenge accepted. :-)
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Post by Griffin » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:11 pm

WOW! *runs away from challenge because my VSD opt with open wings was no where near that good*

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General_Trageton

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Post by General_Trageton » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:35 pm

Well my plan is to release the VSD-1 with both open and closed wings.

For the VSD-2 I was thinking of the "solid" wings look as it's often depicted, including EaW. I was never really happy with my old VSD2 having no wings at all. The reference being pretty much a single comic image. So wings it is :D
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Post by WarHawkster » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:43 pm

Is it possible for VSD to use sfoils hook?

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Post by Rookie_One1 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:12 pm

Technically speaking, yes, but in practice it would be of no use, as the AI is programmed to use those only while landing on a command ship
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Post by WarHawkster » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:51 pm

Rookie_One1 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:12 pm
Technically speaking, yes, but in practice it would be of no use, as the AI is programmed to use those only while landing on a command ship
Hyperspace also though? Would be cool to see them open up after coming out of hyperspace.

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Post by General_Trageton » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:13 pm

WarHawkster wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:51 pm

Hyperspace also though? Would be cool to see them open up after coming out of hyperspace.
Intriguing thought, I‘ve ben wondering that as well. If that‘d work, I‘d like to take that approach.
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Post by Rookie_One1 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:24 pm

Unless Jeremy can cook us a hook to permit that (and separate landing and hyperspace, don'T want to see the lambda shuttle wings to fold prior to a jump), we can forget about this

Concerning the wings, will you do a solid-wing version of the VSD-1 ? (Until the closed wings version IS the solid-wing one, at that point I should also ask if you will do a open-wing version of the VSD-2 :lachtot: )

Edit : just checked, the solid-wing VSD is just basically the closed one, so we could argue for an open-wing VSD-2 at one point, so now the question is only : are the wings opened in space, or only used for atmospheric flight,
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Post by General_Trageton » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:38 pm

There are varying interprettations of this, I've seen variants were the wings are simply closed and others, more common, where the space between them is solid. I have no plans to release a solid-wing version for the vsd1, however, this will be reserved for the vsd2.

If it isn't possible to incorporate the s-foils into the vsd without a separate hook, I'll release the vsd1 "primary" with open wings and have the closed wing version optional choice which could be included via mission hook
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Post by WarHawkster » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:52 pm

I think the open wings make more sense for arming its concussion missile silos, an attack position if you will. Doesn’t seem really that necessary for atmospheric flight considering ISDs fly in atmosphere without wings.

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Post by Rookie_One1 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:26 am

The wings are clearly marked as Atmospheric Maneuvering Surfaces on the official schematic.

While the ISD can operate in atmosphere, it was never made for that usage, while the VSD was made for it, hence the "wings"

Note that we could charter the fact that the VSD-2 wimgs are solid to improvements that made it unnecessary for the VSD-2 to have openables wings.
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Post by WarHawkster » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:31 am

Rookie_One1 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:26 am
The wings are clearly marked as Atmospheric Maneuvering Surfaces on the official schematic.

While the ISD can operate in atmosphere, it was never made for that usage, while the VSD was made for it, hence the "wings"

Note that we could charter the fact that the VSD-2 wimgs are solid to improvements that made it unnecessary for the VSD-2 to have openables wings.
I don’t think that really matters so much anymore with the new cannon. At the time those schematics came out ISDs didn’t enter atmosphere, hence the wings on the VSD.

Regardless, the schematics didn’t have them open either, and if I’m not mistaken the only place we see them open is in the x-wing games, and afaik it’s not explained why.

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Post by Rookie_One1 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:30 am

Even in Legends an ISD can go into atmosphere, that was retconned after TFU2 if i'm not mistaken
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Post by General_Trageton » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:31 am

I think we should move this discussion to a separate topic, after all this thread is about Bman‘s ISD, I posted the VSD merely to challenge him to a litle race ...

: I‘ve split this part from Bman‘s ISD2 thread so we‘re no longer hijacking it for the wings debate

On a side note: Drool you fools!
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Post by Rich C » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:04 pm

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Post by WarHawkster » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:04 pm

Rookie_One1 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:30 am
Even in Legends an ISD can go into atmosphere, that was retconned after TFU2 if i'm not mistaken
Yea I remember at the time people complained about that since it defeated the purpose of the VSD’s wings.

Looks fantastic Trage!

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Post by Rookie_One1 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:46 pm

Lookin good G_T!

on my side, it does not remove the purpose of the VSD wings. the VSD was made by Rendili Stardrives instead of Kuat Drive Yard(although KDY did have a limited participation in it's design), who made the Acclamators and the Venators (under their Rothana Heavy Engineering subsidiary) during the clone wars, then the ISD (under their own name)

The VSD was Rendili response to the Acclamator, as such it followed a different design philosophy although the basics of the star destroyers remained the same (and in the original EU, the main designer, Walex Blissex, was a former KDY employee), we could say that the usage of atmospheric surfaces for atmosphere maneuvering instead of only using repulsors and jet maneuvering are of those different design philosophies (Although KDY did help a bit with the design)

Funny thing, although KDY built the replacements, the Imperator-Class(later Imperial Class), and the Tector-Class, Rendili (in the original EU) philosophy had more of an impact, as it's replacements,the ISD, carried less fighters than the Venators with a capacity of 72, and the TSD carried none, and were more built to dish it out in ship-to-ship combat, were very similar to the VSD in the design philosophy, which only carried 24 fighters, while the Venator was more of a true carrier, with nearly 200 fighters, although more fragile than either the ISD or the TSD. Only thing KDY seems to have eschewed from Rendili philosophy was the idea of the atmospheric maneuvering surfaces.

Hell, I think that chances are that the VSD could probably destroy the Venator in a straight fight without fighters.

Small note : concerning the TSD, I do believe that like the ISD and the VSD, a TSD-2 version was made, although it's fanon at that point :p
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Post by Bman » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:09 am

Looking great GT. Found a solution to another big related project I'm working on before I can get back to ISD-II. Great job. That is a brilliant idea... make the wings open slowly using the S-Foils patch when your VSD-I exits hyperspace. Same principle as the Shuttle and X-wing but with some tweaking. 30 degree angles?
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:04 am

AI craft don't actuate their s-foils for hyperspace. But a hook probably be written to do it. There would need to be a field in the craft.ini files to suppress it for the lambda shuttle and assault gunboat, possibly others.

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Post by General_Trageton » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:52 am

Yes .... yes, that would be a great asset!
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Post by Rookie_One1 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 am

You need to ask Jeremy about that :p
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Post by JeremyaFr » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:52 pm

Hello,
I've uploaded a WIP version of the S-Foils hook. (See the hooks forum).

Now, when hyper out, the AI crafts will start with the S-Foils closed, then the S-Foils open.
I need to add an option to disable it for the Shuttle (via an option in the .ini file).

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