OptED Ideas

[Hawkeye1]

Hmm.. Flavid has a good point, sometimes I find it a lot easier to make a model with the textures already in mind, as in how I'm going to apply them. I'll sometimes make a separate mesh for each single texture, so it's very easy to select the faces, ie, just higlight them all in the window. What might be a VERY useful tool is a way to edit which mesh the faces are in, sort of like ACE had.. only more advanced. Say you include a feature that will allow you to highlight a face, or group of faces, and move them to another mesh. Or, if this is even possible, add the ability to create a new separate mesh from those faces. This would have really helped me in my quest to eliminate lighting bugs, because you could use it to separate faces which you don't want smoothed out into a separate mesh AFTER you've tested the ship, and you won't have to go back into your CAD program and then re-export the model, etc.. would save time.<BR>Also, I hope you can prevent something that's really annoying... A while back I was able to import a pre-textured .obj file into Optech, and the texture coordinates were perfectly preserved. But the ship didn't work in game. I got the infamous triangling to infinity bug, because I couldn't stitch the model like I usually do. I hope someone can solve this... If not, I'll just stick with stitching.<P>Btw, if there was a way to import a .3ds file, or even a .obj, is there any possible way to preserve the smooth groups you designate in the model? I'm sick of having XWA autosmooth EVERY SINGLE FACE in a mesh. I get the feeling it's part of the coding in the graphics engine, considering a lot of TG opts have the same problems, but I'd love to find some way to prevent the nasty shading foul ups caused by 90+ degree angles. My Enterprise-E may never work correctly, because XWA doesn't allow enough meshes for me to separate all those sharp angles that cause the shading errors..It's at something like 60 meshes, which is causing some really bad things to happen in the game..

[Gringlas]

A easy to handle rotation editor! I have absolutly no idea of how the ones in OPTTech and Ace-DXF are working!<BR>The ability to hide meshes!

[Avius]

Besure to have a way to zero out software vectors.

[Ace Antilles]

Bios Boy is away at the moment he will answer more questions when he returns later next week.<BR>Please keep any suggestions and comments coming in. More of how you would like to see things laid out, as well as what to include.<BR>He has a great big list of features but it helps to know how you like to see them displayed.<P>Keep him excited about this project so that it can be finished before XWA dies completely.

[Bios Boy]

I have always wanted to texture my model in a CAD program and then import it complete with texture positions into an Opt editor. The fully implimented Obj code will allow me and others to do that without any problems.<P>I know what you mean about moving faces to other meshes but I am not going to support it. With OptED it will be very quick and simple to import a model or a part of a model so there shouldn't be any difficuly to change a part of your ship. If I get into reassigning faces I will soon end up with code to manipulate the model in other ways and I don't want to build a CAD package. Thinking on those lines I may add a feature to set a meshes basic properties to those of another mesh you have already setup.<P>I will have to check out smooth groups and Xwa but I have an idea about it. I have heard some people say they get triangulation because of a stitching problem but I only know it from having too many faces in a mesh, if it is due to stitching I may have an idea.<P>I have never been able to understand the rotation editors so I will be working hard to get that right.<P>Software vectors will be zeroed by default without you doing anything but you will be able to set them manually if you want.

[Azza]

Hi, great to know that XWA is still being revolutionised, BiosBoy.<P><BR>I would like to see, (if possible)<P>*support for other image extensions (jpg?)<P>*An <B>extensive</B>list of errors in the help file and how to combat them.<P>I know the second is possible, but is the first?

[Azza]

Oh, and please could you make the view window a LOT bigger please? In OPTech 1.0 the window is really small!

[Azza]

oh, and i hate switching between PAN and ROTATE mode just so i can rotate and use the zoom function. Can't you intergrate the two modes? For example:<P>The arrow keys pan.<BR>Click and hold the right mouse button to rotate.<BR>The mousewheel and SHIFT+arrow keys zoom in and out.

[Bios Boy]

I suppose I could add in other image formats but I would like to keep it to bitmap (BMP) for the first release at least. I will have to see.<P>I have been thinking about error checks and I will definately have some, and of those they will be clearly explained with where and how they can be corrected. There are a lot of other error checks that I am not sure if I am going to include and just let Xwa or Xvt decide if it works, probably I will add in more checks later due to peoples requests.<P>The 3D view will be in its own window and its size will only be limited by your monitor. There may be an anoying thing about when it can be resized but I will have to see about that later.<P>The last idea was to have small buttons for Pan and Rotate and also include keyboard support on a simular line to what you have said.

[Azza]

Also, if a runtime error occurs, is it possible to make OPTech NOT shut down? Its very annoying when an amateur such as myself keeps making errors and has to reboot OPtech every...bloody...time!<P>And when I say explanations of errors, can you explain what makes the runtime errors occur and their solutions?

[Defiant]

The whole runtime error with a number and stuff is something that always annoyed me when I made VB programs. When you get runtime errors, that's Microsoft's libraries talking. It's been a long time, but there are ways of trapping errors like that from happening. It's just a matter of thorough program design, really.

[Ace Antilles]

Azza I think you're getting a bit mixed up.<BR>Bios-Boy isn't making fixes to OPTech he's making a brand <B>NEW</B> program from scratch!<BR>So he won't be able to stop OPTech crashing because he won't need to.<BR>Also if you get a runtime or any error with his program then you can report it and Bios will look into it and fix it. Something that JH isn't doing.<P>I've seen the amount of work B.B is putting into the coding though and it's unlikely you will get any problems anyway. Still be patient as it's not ready for a while yet.

[Azza]

OK, sorry BB. Ah, I can't think of any more things that annoyed me with OPTech <P>Oh yes! With ACE DXF, you had to have some special drivers or open gl or something like that to texture. I hope your new program won't have any requirements like that.

[Azza]

Oh yes! Is it possible to break up a whole model into separate meshes IN your new program?. Cos sometimes I make an error in Rhino when defining meshes, and I only have a limited amount of saves, and I have to waste one if I need to go back and separate a mesh. Is this possible?<p>[ 08 September 2002: Message edited by: Azza ]

[Bios Boy]

I like your input Azza keep it up <P>The errors you talked about in OPTech are anoying for an opter. I have error trapping code all over the place to prevent these errors from stoping my program. If an unexpected error does occur, and I mean unexpected as I have error trapping code in all the major places, then my program will crash but 99 percent of the time if an error does occur then my program will report it to you, where it happened and then you can continue to use the program without any bad effects to your current project.<P>For example if an out of memory error occurs while importing an obj into your project then you will see an error message and your project will be returned to the condition before you imported the obj.<P>When an error is displayed I normally display the error number and description along with the area it occured within my program like you saw when you used my Opt Viewer program. If you think this is not a good format then tell me. Its more of a message then the runtime thing you see in OPTech, the runtime thing is an uncontrolled error.<P>You wont need any special drivers to make my program wotk or even any special components, all you will need is the latest DirectX version and the setup program I supply which makes sure your computer has everything it needs.

[Bios Boy]

<u>Current Progress</u><BR>OptED has come on well but there is still loads to do. I am concentrating on making it work for importing an fully textured obj and then creating the opt, which might be a beta release.<P>I have added many advanced management systems to prevent duplication within your opt which will keep the size down. One of these systems prevents duplicate vertices (points) from existing in each mesh. The systems currently include<ul>[*]Vertex Management System</li>[*]Vertex Normal Management System</li>[*]Texture Vertex Management System</li>[*]Palette Management System</li>[/LIST]Probably a texture management system later on and others.<P>There is a basic user interface right now which is always expanding. I am in the process of tweaking the obj importing code so it works faster and better and also adding in support for transparency from the obj. I am trying very hard to keep any calculations away from the user, calculations like those in the menus of ACE and OPTech and so far it is working.<P>Back to it then...

[Azza]

Cool! The error system in OPTviewer is fine. yay!<P>Also, if I right click on the file your OPTed will use (e.g: .opz for OPTech) i can go to properties and set which program the file uses to open itself.<P>Then....if you double click on the file (NOT the .exe), you can go straight into the program with the file ready-loaded. But in OPTech, it comes up with a runtime error, forcing you to run the program through the exe file. Is it possible for the new OPTed to make this possible?<P>Tell me if my explanation isn't very clear!

[Defiant]

It's a fairly simple feature to ask for, and Bios Boy definitely seems to know what he's doing.

[DataDroid]

How about an explorer-style panel that lets you open different projects from within the program, or one that lets you explore different parts of the mesh, i.e. Model>Mesh>Face>Texture or something like that, similar to VC++<P>Would it also be possible to include "round" texture mapping?<p>[ 13 September 2002: Message edited by: DataDroid ]

[Bios Boy]

That feature is know as command line processing and I know how to do it and it will be in OptED. I like it and always try to build it into my programs as I find it very useful.<P>DataDroid: you will be able to load projects and also import as many as you like into your current project but I won't be making a viewer or partial importer. What you can do is import the whole opt for example and then delete the meshes and textures you don't wan't in your project.<P>Any texture mapping research won't be done for a long while yet but I will probably look at Max to give me an idea of what to aim for and that has round texture mapping so we will see.<P>I am working on importing Obj material files right now which keeps throwing up new things I need to do. I have done the code to generate a textures mipmaps and it works really well giving Paint Shop Pro a run for its money. You can load a bitmap from the harddrive and I am altering the code to load a transparent bitmap as well.<P>Its all go...

[legend43]

I would say make it possible to rotate and move individual meshes in a manner similar to rhino.

[Hawkeye1]

Hmm.. Ya know, just had a thought... texturing two identical objects can sometimes be a pain, especially when they have a couple dozen textures each.. what would be cool is if you could include some kind of a copy/paste mesh tool, and maybe a "mirror" function, to simplify texturing on all those multi-symmetrical ships people like to make so often.

[Defiant]

As BiosBoy has stated many times, he's not making a texturing program or a model editing program. You texture the ship in your 3D program, and the program converts it.<P>If you want to avoid making lots of textures, use unwrapping (look it up). If you want to avoid having to duplicate the model on both sides, use a mirroring tool.<P>3D programs should remain 3D programs, and converters should remain converters. To do otherwise would reduce the quality of both.

[Azza]

mmm..........yes, i suppose.<P>Whats round texture mapping?

[Defiant]

He means spherical. <P>Textures can be projected onto a model in various methods. The typical X-W model is done using planar projection, where you look down an axis and the texture is mapped right onto the model. Spherical projections are a little different, and can be useful for curved objects--if you wanted to texture a planet, for instance.<P>Basically it's one way of telling the computer which points on your texture correspond to points on the model.