Battle 4 - Mission 4: Capture the Freighter Suprosa

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Battle 4 - Mission 4: Capture the Freighter Suprosa

tubaman21
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Post by tubaman21 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:52 pm

Started another playthrough of XWA last week and installed everything that was available on the download page before I did. Everything was going ok until Battle 4 - Mission 4: Capture the Freighter Suprosa. The first issue is after hypering the first time, another craft drops out of hyperspace and rams me right away unless I am holding the joystick down so I move as soon as I regain control. This doesn't seem to be random, it happens here every time I try the mission. Next, Luke's X-Wing destroys the Suprosa. It can be disabled and he doesn't stop shooting at it. I've tried issuing orders to not attack it, but that only affects the Y-Wings. One time he actually stopped at 4% hull and I was able to proceed. After hypering to the next point, I must have been rammed by two craft dropping out of hyperspace because as soon as the starfield reverted to normal. I heard two collisions and the next thing I see is the shuttle landing back at the cruiser and a mission failure. I don't remember having any issues with the mission in any of my previous playthroughs. Any ideas what is going on? This was on easy and I didn't try at a higher difficulty level I was so frustrated. Thanks!

~Bryan
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Last edited by tubaman21 on Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Bryan
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"We stand alone, together."

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:02 pm

I'll have a look at the mission and see what I can do to fix it.

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capitanguinea
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Post by capitanguinea » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:28 pm

Luke has a problem with the orders in region 2. He starts to attack the Surprosa to disable (using missile) after the docking. Plus, he has an escorting role for the Outrider, so he shoot to kill if some one attack it. Those order are contradictory to the plot of the mission. more over the flight groups are messed: they all are in 0-0. You should have a mixed flight group with all rebels to issue those orders.

last: the problem with entry point from hyperspace: you could fix it having a vertical formation and adding spaces between members.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:31 pm

tubaman21 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:52 pm
Started another playthrough of XWA last week and installed everything that was available on the download page before I did. Everything was going ok until Battle 4 - Mission 4: Capture the Freighter Suprosa. The first issue is after hypering the first time, another craft drops out of hyperspace and rams me right away unless I am holding the joystick down so I move as soon as I regain control. This doesn't seem to be random, it happens here every time I try the mission. Next, Luke's X-Wing destroys the Suprosa. It can be disabled and he doesn't stop shooting at it. I've tried issuing orders to not attack it, but that only affects the Y-Wings. One time he actually stopped at 4% hull and I was able to proceed. After hypering to the next point, I must have been rammed by two craft dropping out of hyperspace because as soon as the starfield reverted to normal. I heard two collisions and the next thing I see is the shuttle landing back at the cruiser and a mission failure. I don't remember having any issues with the mission in any of my previous playthroughs. Any ideas what is going on? This was on easy and I didn't try at a higher difficulty level I was so frustrated. Thanks!

~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."
I couldn't reproduce the issue where Luke destroys the Suprosa, but did fix the issue where the Y-wing crash into each other.

Do me a favor, download the updated mission file, and use it to replace the current file in your Star Wars - X-Wing Alliance\Missions folder, and then see if the mission is still broken.
capitanguinea wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:28 pm
Luke has a problem with the orders in region 2. He starts to attack the Surprosa to disable (using missile) after the docking. Plus, he has an escorting role for the Outrider, so he shoot to kill if some one attack it. Those order are contradictory to the plot of the mission. more over the flight groups are messed: they all are in 0-0. You should have a mixed flight group with all rebels to issue those orders.

last: the problem with entry point from hyperspace: you could fix it having a vertical formation and adding spaces between members.
The way the orders work is that Luke will try to disable the Suprosa. Then when that's done, he will escort the Outrider until it jumps away, and then Luke's next order is to jump to hyperspace himself. There should be no point in the mission where the escort order triggers a hostile reaction from Luke.
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Last edited by Jaeven on Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tubaman21
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Post by tubaman21 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:37 pm

Roger. I'll give this a try when I get home from work later this afternoon. Thanks!

~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."
~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."

tubaman21
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Post by tubaman21 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:45 pm

Ok. I'm not getting rammed right out the gate anymore, but Luke is still attacking the freighter and destroying it. Maybe because the Suprosa is targeting the Outrider and isn't disabled yet, Luke continues to attack it before I can get it disabled? I'll have to try using lasers to get the shields down and then switching to ion cannons. Using ion cannons alone I run out of power to them and even at max charging I lose them quickly. Thanks for the help!

~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."
~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:32 am

tubaman21 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:45 pm
Ok. I'm not getting rammed right out the gate anymore, but Luke is still attacking the freighter and destroying it. Maybe because the Suprosa is targeting the Outrider and isn't disabled yet, Luke continues to attack it before I can get it disabled? I'll have to try using lasers to get the shields down and then switching to ion cannons. Using ion cannons alone I run out of power to them and even at max charging I lose them quickly. Thanks for the help!

~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."
There's no reason to not link your lasers and ions when you disable the Suprosas shields.

Here's what I suggest. Let Luke and Dash go in first to take fire, then move in behind the Suprosa and fire at it with lasers and ions linked. Once the shields are down, pepper the Suprosa's engines with ion fire only. Shift energy from shields to weapons as needed and the mission should be easy.

tubaman21
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Post by tubaman21 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:40 am

I totally forgot you could dump shield power to lasers. I dump lasers to shields all the time. Duh. Tried it again and got it disabled with hull at 100%. The next hyperjump went fine. Then I didn't pay attention and got roasted by the INT. Looks like my issues are resolved. Thanks, Jaeven!

~Bryan
Commander Tubaman
Maverick 2
Task Force Maverick
"We stand alone, together."
~Bryan
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"We stand alone, together."

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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:47 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:31 pm
The way the orders work is that Luke will try to disable the Suprosa. Then when that's done, he will escort the Outrider until it jumps away, and then Luke's next order is to jump to hyperspace himself. There should be no point in the mission where the escort order triggers a hostile reaction from Luke.
Is it possible that at the moment when the Suprosa is disabled, it still has a laser in-flight that then hits the Outrider, which causes Luke (now following his order to escort the Outrider) to become hostile to the disabled Suprosa?

How does an order to disable even work for craft not equipped with ion cannons? Is it possible he's completely skipping the disable order due to lack of appropriate weaponry?

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm

keiranhalcyon7 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:47 pm
Jaeven wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:31 pm
The way the orders work is that Luke will try to disable the Suprosa. Then when that's done, he will escort the Outrider until it jumps away, and then Luke's next order is to jump to hyperspace himself. There should be no point in the mission where the escort order triggers a hostile reaction from Luke.
Is it possible that at the moment when the Suprosa is disabled, it still has a laser in-flight that then hits the Outrider, which causes Luke (now following his order to escort the Outrider) to become hostile to the disabled Suprosa?

How does an order to disable even work for craft not equipped with ion cannons? Is it possible he's completely skipping the disable order due to lack of appropriate weaponry?
No, because there is a delay between the ships jumping orders. Also, escort actually only triggers action against ships that have orders to disable the ship that is to be escorted.

Basically what happens is that the ship will attempt to use its weaponry to help in the disable process, so Luke will fire at the ship to bring down its shields. But because the AI isn't smart enough to realize it doesn't have ion weapons, it will continue to firing lasers at the ship even after the shields are down.

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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:47 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm
keiranhalcyon7 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:47 pm
How does an order to disable even work for craft not equipped with ion cannons? Is it possible he's completely skipping the disable order due to lack of appropriate weaponry?
Basically what happens is that the ship will attempt to use its weaponry to help in the disable process, so Luke will fire at the ship to bring down its shields. But because the AI isn't smart enough to realize it doesn't have ion weapons, it will continue to firing lasers at the ship even after the shields are down.
Hmm... that doesn't explain why he'd keep firing at it even after it's disabled, though.

Could the order - rather, the trigger for the escort order - be changed to have Luke switch orders once the Suprosa's shields are down?

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Post by DuckOfLuck » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:07 am

Another potential issue with this mission is that the Y-Wings are of no help whatsoever taking down the Interdictor's shields, dying quickly to its guns even on Easy. It's not outright mission-breaking because you can still get its shields down alone or with Luke and Dash's help, once they're through with the fighters. But it is part of this general immersion-breaking thing affecting many missions, where your squad experiences massive attrition to turbolaser fire. Jaeven I am wondering if it's a similar thing to what you pointed out in B1M4, where they are too good for their own good and dodge too much to be able to get shots off.

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Post by Will T » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:10 am

DuckOfLuck wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:07 am
Another potential issue with this mission is that the Y-Wings are of no help whatsoever taking down the Interdictor's shields, dying quickly to its guns even on Easy. It's not outright mission-breaking because you can still get its shields down alone or with Luke and Dash's help, once they're through with the fighters. But it is part of this general immersion-breaking thing affecting many missions, where your squad experiences massive attrition to turbolaser fire. Jaeven I am wondering if it's a similar thing to what you pointed out in B1M4, where they are too good for their own good and dodge too much to be able to get shots off.
It's not. All the Y-Wings in this mission have Rookie AI.

They're supposed to die. They all get killed in the Shadows of the Empire novel (though admittedly there's no Interdictor involved there). They're supposed to be some of the 'many Bothans' dying in pursuit of of the DSII information.

Unlike the ISDs, I don't think the Interdictor has been particularly upgunned compared with the TG opt, but I can check.

EDIT: Ignore me, I just checked and the AI is actually pretty decent: it's Top Ace for your flight, and for some reason Jedi for the ones who are scripted to get killed. It's the mission failed hints screen which says not to rely on them as they're all rookies. Which is... odd.

Still, maybe going by Jaevan's findings on good AI being too evasive against cap ships maybe that was factored in? This might have been the AI setting that got the mission to balance the way the designers wanted with lots of Y-Wings dying? Idk, it's really hard to say. I might have to try this mission a few times in vanilla and see what the survival rate is like.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:05 pm

I'd agree the mission is kind of stupid. You disable a single freighter, then you have to disable a big Interdictor that kills half your squadron. While the cameos and connections to Shadows of the Empire are cool, it's not TG's best attempt at mission design. Ideally, I'd give this mission a total rework, but that's something for an XWA Expanded Campaign or something.

The reason the Y-wings get slaughtered is because they have no torpedoes. Disabling a heavy warship that's well armed is incredibly difficult without them, which I guess was intended so that 'a lot of Bothans die'.

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Post by DarHan » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:32 pm

The lack of warheads might actually be another way they followed the plot of Shadows of the Empire. The novel has the squad leader explicitly tell Luke that they couldn’t get torpedoes for their fighters before the mission.
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