[B0M6] Family Business 6: Rebel rendezvous: Aid to the Alliance

Here we can have in-depth discussions about which missions need to be adjusted because they are broken either by original design or by XWA models.
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[B0M6] Family Business 6: Rebel rendezvous: Aid to the Alliance

DarrianCZE
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Post by DarrianCZE » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:29 am

Hi guys, this mission feels heavily unbalanced. I am doing it for like 10th time, and every time the rebel ships get destroyed before reaching the required percentage. The closest I got was 64%. But those ships are too vulnerable and they are destroyed too quickly. I am trying to destroy the bombers as much as possible and as soon as possible, I even command my buddy to hunt them as well, but they still get destroyed.

I have found on a Youtube channel, that its the Upgrade which is making it impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RJ3TK8JGXU

Could this please be fixed? Many thanks!
Last edited by Forceflow on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Forceflow » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:52 am

Mhm... Do you have the new ISD II installed? That one should be a bit less powerful than the one that is in the XWAUCP1.6. Been a while since I played that mission so I am not sure if I had an adjusted version of it or not. I know that it is absolutely essential to get the T/Bs as soon as they show up. Everything else is secondary, though once those are destroyed the Assault Gunboats show up, and they will hunt you down. So once they show up it's best to high-tail it out of there.
The mission is a tough nut to crack, though going for the T/Bs right away should work... but then again been a while since I last played that one.
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DarrianCZE
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Post by DarrianCZE » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:04 am

I have the new ISD II installed, unfortunately, and I am able to wipe the Bombers relatively fast. What I was able to see, that mostly ISD wipes them out.

Mrowaksu
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Post by Mrowaksu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Yeah, I do not know if it is intentional, but at least four ships that are supposed to run away do not have A.I.. order for that enabled (or rather they have it, it just never 'jumps' to that order) - so they end up sitting ducks.

FRT/C Vaisang and FRT/C Raimi
CRV Coen and CRV Farrely

Also the triggers for other Craft to run away are somewhat bogous: they wait for certain (from 10 to 13) numbers of enemies to be in their proximity.

If you want I could provide you with mission file where the A.I. is fixed. Please find it attached. Don't forget to leave feedback (if it makes the mission too easy for you, or some such).
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DarrianCZE
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Post by DarrianCZE » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:20 pm

Mrowaksu wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:29 pm
Yeah, I do not know if it is intentional, but at least four ships that are supposed to run away do not have A.I.. order for that enabled (or rather they have it, it just never 'jumps' to that order) - so they end up sitting ducks.

FRT/C Vaisang and FRT/C Raimi
CRV Coen and CRV Farrely

Also the triggers for other Craft to run away are somewhat bogous: they wait for certain (from 10 to 13) numbers of enemies to be in their proximity.

If you want I could provide you with mission file where the A.I. is fixed. Please find it attached. Don't forget to leave feedback (if it makes the mission too easy for you, or some such).
Thank you, but once I try this mission file, and I get over the 66% limit, and I leave the system, then the mission will fail saying that I managed to save only 57%, when in reality, I had 72.

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Post by Mrowaksu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:00 pm

Oh. Just checked it myself. It appears the problem is more serious than I expected. Some of craft are not registered as having left the area, even if they were successful in doing so.

Interesting that you got failed mission screen - it means that 50% of convoyed craft was destroyed... but actually 72% of them got away.

Edit: In the screenshot you can see the problem. This ship is a member of Global Group 7, so it should totally count towards the number of ships that escaped.
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Post by Mrowaksu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:02 pm

DarrianCZE wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:20 pm
Thank you, but once I try this mission file, and I get over the 66% limit, and I leave the system, then the mission will fail saying that I managed to save only 57%, when in reality, I had 72.
Ok, I circumvented the issue - it is still weird some of craft do not get registered as escaped. However, it is at least possible to complete the mission with some consistency.

Finished it three times. Just remember check on the craft you are protecting because they can be attacked also by Tie Fighters, not only Tie Bombers.
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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:58 pm

This mission has a lot of issues. Among them is that the X-wings attack the Lancers and once they destroy one of them, the Assault Gunboats will start spawning. This also means that the X-wings won't be helping with the bombers.

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Post by Mrowaksu » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:23 pm

I don't think Frigates (I think you mean them by 'Lancers') are a huge problem. They are mostly irrelevant during whole battle, and you can kill them with Otana easily yourself.

The Tau Gunboat groups start spawning once you destroy an ATR, not Frigates.

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Jaeven
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Post by Jaeven » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:41 pm

Mrowaksu wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:23 pm
I don't think Frigates (I think you mean them by 'Lancers') are a huge problem. They are mostly irrelevant during whole battle, and you can kill them with Otana easily yourself.

The Tau Gunboat groups start spawning once you destroy an ATR, not Frigates.
There are many problems with them, as they will change orders if they get within 2 km of the platform, and will then start shooting at everything near them, including any escaping craft that have not yet departed.

The other problem with them is that the X-wings will target them instead of going for the bombers, thus forcing the situation we have now where its pretty much just you against wave and waves of bombers that will deal enough damage to the MC40, leading to the ISD killing it easily and then moving to the escaping craft.

You are correct on the Gunboat spawning, however. I misread the condition as GG12 (which would have been the Lancers) whereas it actually says GU12, which are the ATRs.

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Will T
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Post by Will T » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:48 pm

Just realised I posted this in the wrong thread. Meant to comment here, might be relevant:

One issue that may not have been considered here is that the Lancers have way more laser hardpoints in XWAU than they do in vanilla.

They only have 8 in vanilla, the XWAU version has 20.

Thats'..... quite a stark increase. I don't know how much of an effect that has, but I have seen on multiple occasions one of the Lancers (if not destroyed by the player) will move in to range where it fires on the MC40. This could, again, be contributing to the Shadow dying earlier, which in turn allows more ships to fire on the transports.

I've been able to complete this mission each of the three times I've played it since the new ISDII, but it was only just each time.

If the strange behaviour of the transports was purely to blame, then the mission would be just as hard in vanilla. I'm not saying it isn't relevant, but a weakness in how the mission is designed could be compounded by an XWAU change that, again, is small enough to not have an effect outside of this mission.

In theory the weapon slot setup should limit how much the Lancer can fire. But we've already seen with the ISDs that it's not quite that cut and dry.
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Mrowaksu
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Post by Mrowaksu » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:15 pm

Jaeven wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:41 pm

There are many problems with them, as they will change orders if they get within 2 km of the platform, and will then start shooting at everything near them, including any escaping craft that have not yet departed.

The other problem with them is that the X-wings will target them instead of going for the bombers, thus forcing the situation we have now where its pretty much just you against wave and waves of bombers that will deal enough damage to the MC40, leading to the ISD killing it easily and then moving to the escaping craft.

You are correct on the Gunboat spawning, however. I misread the condition as GG12 (which would have been the Lancers) whereas it actually says GU12, which are the ATRs.
What I meant to say, in my experience, the biggest problem is presented by ISD which at some point focuses fire on the escaping craft. You can play a perfect game and it will burn all to cinders. I would consider changing its order so it focuses fire on the Platform and Shadow Frigate instead of the escaping vessels.

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Post by siva80 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:45 pm

Having a great time trying to finish this mission myself...

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Post by Mrowaksu » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:29 pm

siva80 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:45 pm
Having a great time trying to finish this mission myself...

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I think you've missed the second file I uploaded. I does not have the same problem. I am uploading it again:
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Post by anonymousgamer1337 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:58 pm

First off, to whom it concerns, great work on the upgrade project, really appreciate all the years of work that's gone into this.

Now, just to add to this thread, even as of now, the only way I was able to get past this mission was to uninstall XWA and play vanilla. So seems like some more balancing needs to be done. I don't have any special insights, but it should be obvious to experts when playing this mission comparing it with xwa & without.

Seems I'm not alone on this, based on comments on this video for some more perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RJ3TK8 ... ariableCiA

ThaneRoss
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Post by ThaneRoss » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:21 am

The patched mission seems to have a bug for me. Green 5's dialog doesn't trigger. He jumps away without setting the nav beacon.

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Post by ThaneRoss » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:02 am

Ah, never mind. Reinstalled and that resolved my issue.

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Post by Kramah313 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:26 pm

Just wanted to chime in here as someone new to the upgrade project and playing through the game again. I was having the same issue as described here - probably 10-20 failures where the ISD would slaughter the ships at the end and I couldn't seem to draw its fire enough. Tried the file by Mrowaksu (the 2nd one) and completed in the first try. Thanks for putting that out there!

Edit to mention I am playing on Hard difficulty for possible future readers

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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:38 am

Note this is for 2.1 I found a few issues the first is on the map briefing on the last page on the word "rebels" it will start the briefing again. the other issue is do to ion cannon bug being fixed should we return the ISD II to its OG orders like the third order instead of it being SS patrol + attack make it SS Patrol + disable

Another issue I saw was with TRN Bolt it will dock with 3 of the ships then go back to it's wait order from the start (see videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmcF2bICvM) when it should go it it's hyper to leave region order
Last edited by Blazingfirestorm on Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ace Antilles » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:01 pm

Blazingfirestorm wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:38 am
Note this is for 2.1 I found a few issues the first is on the map briefing on the last page on the word "rebels" it will start the briefing again. the other issue is do to ion cannon bug being fixed should we return the ISD II to its OG orders like the third order instead of it being SS patrol + attack make it SS Patrol + disable

Another issue I saw was with TRN Bolt it will dock with 3 of the ships then go back to it's wait order from the start (see videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYmcF2bICvM) when it should go it it's hyper to leave region order
Map briefing sound issues occur because the game is running faster now I believe.
Don't know about the orders change. @Jaeven might but if things work I wouldn't change them now.
Why is the Bolt supposed to hyper out?
More importantly why is the Farrely parked at a weird angle? lol

How did you find this for difficulty as your report will be using the newest 2020 version and the earlier posts were before it was released.
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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:08 am

I think the Farrely was parked like that due to it being collided with other craft they not much you can do with that and why I think the Bolt should hyper out is it has a order to so it's just it never has chance to trigger due have the orders are set up I just weird that it docks with 3 ships and then parks on PLT under attack you think it would leave after it done it's job I don't know anyway I found the difficulty for this mission a little more easier than the OG

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Post by Ace Antilles » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:46 am

I fixed the briefing time and I moved some of the parked transports around but need to test.
I think we can't easily make Bolt dock with more things because they are set to trigger a hyperspace jump at different times. So Bolt maybe docked when they start to jump?
Have to check its hyper order more later
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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:15 pm

I'd be happy to test, to give a opinion on TRN bolt to me it seem like it's second order should be it's four order and it's four order should be it second that that way instead of going back to its first order of waiting for 8 minutes it would hyper to region 4 because the order of events would wait for 8 minutes, then T/F Alpha 5 shows up, it then circles waypoint once, goes to dock with the 3 ships, then hypers to region 4

Added Note just tested moving the orders around and it still defaults back to the fisrt order to wait it seems that the order needs a jump to trigger

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Post by Blazingfirestorm » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:17 pm

This is the mission I made it's pretty OG the only changes I made is giving TRN bolt hyper to Region 4 a jump trigger of two of of the ships that is docks with must be boarded I also fix an issue with some of the ships have the wrong craft in bonus objective completion message for example the FRT/C Vaisang message is CRV Vaisang has escaped, of course it doesn't have the fixes to map briefing
1B0M6FW.TIE
So please try it out see what people think and give me feed back
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Post by Ace Antilles » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:23 pm

Blazingfirestorm and myself have mixed our fixes together for the mission.
The final version will be out in the next update.
Thanks for your continued help :)
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