Formations and Start 1 coordinates

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Formations and Start 1 coordinates

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:00 am

Hello pilots,
using the Mission 3D Viewer (thanks again, Jeremy) I've found that when a Flight Group has more than 1 unit, most of the formations have the Start 1 point referring to the "center of mass" of the Flight Group, but there are also a few formations, such as the Double Astern, where the Start 1 point refers to the coordinates of the leader (#1) of the Flight Group.
This might explain why the Double Astern formation is rarely used in the campaign missions, whereas the Double Astern Mirror is much more frequent.

Further tests are required to have a full list of which formations have the Start 1 on the center of mass and which ones have it on the Flight Group leader.

Edit: the center of mass of a Flight Group is always intended as if the FG were composed by 6 units, no matter its actual size.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:26 am

OK, here is what I found out: the are 3 types of Flight Group formations regarding the Start 1 point coordinates.

Type 1: Formations where the Start 1 point indicates the coordinates of the leader of the Flight Group.
List of type 1 formations (formation number in AlliED):
Vic (1)
Line Astern (3)
Line Abreast (4)
Double Astern (7)
Stacked High (9)
High X (10)
High Vic (12)
Reverse Line Astern (14)
Abreast Right (16)
Wing Forward (18)
Line Astern Up (20)
Abreast V (22)
Abreast Inverted V (23)
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:08 am

Type 2: Formations where the Start 1 point indicates the center of mass of the Flight Group, calculated as if the Flight Group had all 6 objects (wave of 6).
List of type 2 formations (formation number in AlliED):
Finger Four (2)
Diamond 1 (8)
Double Astern Mirror (24)*
Double Stacked Astern (25)
Double Stacked High (26)
Diamond 2 (27)
Diamond 3 (28)
Flat Pentagon (29)
Side Pentagon (30)
Front Pentagon (31)
Flat Hexagon (32)
Side Hexagon (33)
Front Hexagon (34)

*Space between objects is doubled than in Double Astern, but only in X direction
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:27 am

Type 3: Formations where the leader is placed at a distance from the Start 1 point equal to the spacing, and the direction of the shift depends on the orientation angle.
List of type 3 formations (formation number in AlliED):
Echelon Right (5)
Echelon Left (6)
Vic Abreast (11)
Reverse High Vic (13)
Stacked Low (15)**
Abreast Left (17)
Wing Back (19)
Line Astern Down (21)**

**The leader is "shifted down" on the Z axis
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Phoenix Leader
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Post by Phoenix Leader » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:44 am

This might explain a number of things...

By the way, a few considerations:

1. Pentagons and Hexagons formations are all type 2 (Start 1 at the center)

2. All line formations are type 1 (Start 1 on the leader) except Stacked Low and Abreast Left

3. Abreast V formations (standard and inverted) are both type 1

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Post by Phoenix Leader » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:22 am

The fact that pentagons and hexagons are all centered whereas the lines are usually leader centered makes me think that the "category" depends on the shape, but Vic Abreast (11) and Vic (1) belong to different categories despite being simply rotated on X axis.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:40 am

To recap:
Formations with Start 1 point on the center of mass (type 2):
Pentagons (29, 30, 31), Hexagons (32, 33, 34), Diamonds (8, 27, 28), Finger Four (2) and all Double lines (24, 25, 26) except Double Astern


All the other formations are "leader centered" (Start 1 on the leader) or "leader shifted" (Start 1 translated from the leader)

Leader centered formations: formations with Start 1 point on the leader (type 1):
All line formations (3, 4, 9, 14, 16) except Stacked Low and Abreast Left, the standard Vics (1, 12), the standard Wing (18), Abreast Vs (22, 23), High X (10), Line Astern Up (20) and Double Astern (7)

Leader shifted formations: formations with Start 1 point translated from the leader (type 3):
Echelons (5, 6), the inverted Vics (11, 13), the inverted Wing (19), Stacked Low (15), Abreast Left (17) and Line Astern Down (21)
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Post by Phoenix Leader » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:55 am

Well, it seems that the standard not polygonal formations tend to be leader centered, whereas the inverted ones "leader shifted".
Take the Vics, the Wing and the Line Astern Up for example.

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:08 am

Yeah, also the Stacked High (leader centered) and Stacked Low (leader shifted) follow this logic.


The Double Astern being leader centered is strange though, it's the only leader centered Double Line formation.
Ironically, I opened this topic with the comparison Double Astern vs Double Astern Mirror.
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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keiranhalcyon7
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Post by keiranhalcyon7 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:51 am

Could you clarify the shifted formations? The formation is centered on the 2nd ship? Or the "0th" ship?

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Mark_Farlander
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Post by Mark_Farlander » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:16 am

The shifted formations (or leader shifted formations aka type 3) have the Start 1 point on the 0th craft, which obviously does not exist.

Note that the coordinates of the 0th craft are non-existent for the inverted Vics, I mean Vic Abreast (11) and Reverse High Vic (13).
I don't judge tactics. The Battle is the best and only Judge.

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Post by Bman » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:17 pm

Great info. Thanks Mark
W-I-P: ISD-II, XQ-1 Platform1, (Imp) Escort Carrier, Misc, & TFTC.

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